Gnostičko učenje - 365 Božjih emanacija i lažni stvoritelj

kic wrote:
u onom linku se govori o simboličko-inicijacijskoj naravi priče

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red wolf wrote:Morate shvatiti jednu stvar, netko vam je davno sjebao um i to pošteno. Zato i imate religije.

Reče pristalica doslovnog tumačenja religijskih spisa.
Sad su neke stvari bar malo jasnije.

kic wrote:

Sabina Spielrein wrote:

kic wrote:
procitao si?

Misli na Gilgameša.

taj mit mi je uvijek bio fora, dva kralja se tukli na ulicama grada, i postali jarani, išli u provod skupa ali onaj divljak naje*e, te ovaj Gilgaboy pokuša naći besmrtnost ali umire-

Mene je dojmio, ta nemoć nastavka bivanja me utjeskobila

aaaa :(

Sabina Spielrein wrote:

kic wrote:

Sabina Spielrein wrote:

kic wrote:
procitao si?

Misli na Gilgameša.

taj mit mi je uvijek bio fora, dva kralja se tukli na ulicama grada, i postali jarani, išli u provod skupa ali onaj divljak naje*e, te ovaj Gilgaboy pokuša naći besmrtnost ali umire-

Mene je dojmio, ta nemoć nastavka bivanja me utjeskobila

prolazni smo, tijelo nije samo prolazno prometalo duha-

podsjetilo me na Moorcocka i fantasy inače, stjecanje prijatelja kroz autentičnu borbu-

Speare Shaker wrote:

Sabina Spielrein wrote:

kic wrote:
procitao si?

Misli na Gilgameša.

Zapravo Atrahasis.
No, mislio sam da je svakome imalo pametnom jasno da je priča o općem svjetskom potopu običan mit, jer nigdje nema arheoloških i općenito znanstvenih argumenata koji bi ju potvrdili onakvom kako je zapisana u starim mitovima.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/science/2000/sep/14/internationalnews.archaeology

Ukic wrote:

Sabina Spielrein wrote:

kic wrote:

Sabina Spielrein wrote:

kic wrote:
procitao si?

Misli na Gilgameša.

taj mit mi je uvijek bio fora, dva kralja se tukli na ulicama grada, i postali jarani, išli u provod skupa ali onaj divljak naje*e, te ovaj Gilgaboy pokuša naći besmrtnost ali umire-

Mene je dojmio, ta nemoć nastavka bivanja me utjeskobila

prolazni smo, tijelo nije samo prolazno prometalo duha-

podsjetilo me na Moorcocka i fantasy inače, stjecanje prijatelja kroz autentičnu borbu-

Team building 

kic wrote:
aaaa :(

gilgameš je poema o smrti:

"Leti samo dublje, dublje u stan tame

------------

Idi dole putem kojim nema povratka

Guest wrote:Jedan jedini Bog, u svoj nepojmljivosti, u svom beskraju i bez počela, centar je i Stvoritelj duhovnog svijeta. On stvara emanacijom i od materijalnog svijeta odvaja ga njegovih 365 emanacija, nebesa ili anđela, koji su čisto duhovne esencije. Njegova posljednja emanacija, na samom obodu (zamisliti kao koncentrične krugove u vodi koji nastaju kad se u nju baci kamen, pa su oni krugovi dalje od središta sve veći ali i sve slabiji i kratkotrajniji), jest demijurg, Jahve Starog zavjeta.

On je posljednji i potpuno nesvjestan svog položaja u nebeskoj hijerarhiji. Svjestan je tek svoje majke, Sofije, koja predstavlja emanaciju ispred njega. U svom neznanju da je tek odsjaj pravog, istinskog Boga, demijurg sebe uvjerava da je jedini, nestvoren i svemoćan i želi tu svoju moć pokazati time što će stvoriti nešto svoje. On stvara materijalni svijet, stvara planete, Sunce, Zemlju, naposljetku čovjeka. Nesvjestan svoh zločina vezanja duha za materiju, čime ona postaje njegov zatvor, demijurg svoj božanski dah dan mu od Boga pri nastanku udiše čovjeku i daje mu iluziju života.

Sofija opazi što njezin "sin" čini i upozorava ga da je to zlo i loše, no on je ne sluša i zahtijeva od svojih novih, stvorenih podanika da ga štuju kao jedinog Boga i Stvoritelja, naglašavajući da osim njega ne postoji nijedan drugi. Tako, iz obijesti i neznanja čestice duha zarobljene su u materijalnoj formi i trpe bol, glad, tugu i smrt.

pozorište u nebeskoj kući

ovo me podsjetilo na iskon i korisnika pod nickom Tane.. ostali admini su napravili samo jedan podforum za njega na kojem je on "moderirao" a ostali forumaši glumili da zbilja nešto pišu... tane kao demijurg :D

Sabina Spielrein wrote:

Speare Shaker wrote:

Sabina Spielrein wrote:

kic wrote:
procitao si?

Misli na Gilgameša.

Zapravo Atrahasis.
No, mislio sam da je svakome imalo pametnom jasno da je priča o općem svjetskom potopu običan mit, jer nigdje nema arheoloških i općenito znanstvenih argumenata koji bi ju potvrdili onakvom kako je zapisana u starim mitovima.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/science/2000/sep/14/internationalnews.archaeology

Dakle, riječ je o opisu posljednjeg velikog (ne i općeg) potopa za koji znanost pretpostavlja da je istinita, a koji se dogodio nakon jednog od manjih ledenih doba koji su uslijedili nakon posljednjeg velikog ledenog doba.
Zbog podizanja razine svjetskih mora pa tako i Sredozemnog, došlo je do pucanja brane između Sredozemnog (Egejskog) i Crnog Mora (Bospor i Dardaneli) i prelijevanja vode u Crno more odnosno ujednačavanja vodostaja. Zbog toga se razina Crnog mora podigla za oko 120 metara, pa su sva ljudska naselja ispod te nove razine potopoljena. Ljudi su se dijelom evakuirali i na Bliski Istok i otuda podrijetlo priča o općem potopu.
Ne znam sjećaš li se, ali o tome sam u više navrata pisao i na starom forumu prvi put mislim još 2005. godine. Čak se i svađao sa nekim forumašima koji su tvrdili kako ta priča možda stoji, ali da nije riječ o opisu potopa iz Biblije. Problem je u tome što su ti stari opisi znanstveno neutemeljeni, a ovaj koji se dogodio uz uništavanje naselja u području Crnog Mora je očito poslužio kao predložak za ne samo biblijski opis.
Nikakve druge sličnosti stvarnih događaja iz tog potopa sa opisima u starim mitovima uključujući tu i izvještaj o potopu u Bibliji a i one starije (Atrahasis) po kojima je potopljena cijela Zemlja, što znanost opovrgava.

metilda wrote:

Guest wrote:Jedan jedini Bog, u svoj nepojmljivosti, u svom beskraju i bez počela, centar je i Stvoritelj duhovnog svijeta. On stvara emanacijom i od materijalnog svijeta odvaja ga njegovih 365 emanacija, nebesa ili anđela, koji su čisto duhovne esencije. Njegova posljednja emanacija, na samom obodu (zamisliti kao koncentrične krugove u vodi koji nastaju kad se u nju baci kamen, pa su oni krugovi dalje od središta sve veći ali i sve slabiji i kratkotrajniji), jest demijurg, Jahve Starog zavjeta.

On je posljednji i potpuno nesvjestan svog položaja u nebeskoj hijerarhiji. Svjestan je tek svoje majke, Sofije, koja predstavlja emanaciju ispred njega. U svom neznanju da je tek odsjaj pravog, istinskog Boga, demijurg sebe uvjerava da je jedini, nestvoren i svemoćan i želi tu svoju moć pokazati time što će stvoriti nešto svoje. On stvara materijalni svijet, stvara planete, Sunce, Zemlju, naposljetku čovjeka. Nesvjestan svoh zločina vezanja duha za materiju, čime ona postaje njegov zatvor, demijurg svoj božanski dah dan mu od Boga pri nastanku udiše čovjeku i daje mu iluziju života.

Sofija opazi što njezin "sin" čini i upozorava ga da je to zlo i loše, no on je ne sluša i zahtijeva od svojih novih, stvorenih podanika da ga štuju kao jedinog Boga i Stvoritelja, naglašavajući da osim njega ne postoji nijedan drugi. Tako, iz obijesti i neznanja čestice duha zarobljene su u materijalnoj formi i trpe bol, glad, tugu i smrt.

pozorište u nebeskoj kući

Funkcionalni politeizam. Potpuno nekonzistentan odnosno kontradiktoran kao teološki model pa tako i realno nemoguć. Jedina vrijednost koju može imati je ona literarna (mit).

What is the Meaning of Noah and the Ark?

The story of Noah and his Ark has been told as a children’s story for so many centuries that nowadays no one suspects the real meanings it hides. Instead, it is seen like all children’s stories: as something sweet and foolish. Yet, the story of Noah was written in the Bible by Moses not as entertainment for babies, but as part of the sacred science he encoded in his books. Moses, a man who stood face to face with God, did not waste his time on trifles. He wrote the story of Noah to teach something important to those who wished to have the experiences he had. Meeting divinity is no easy feat.

Rembrandt: Moses

"...when [after speaking with God] he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him. And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him." - Exodus 34

In case you do not know the story of Noah, it is told in the first book by Moses, called Genesis / Bereshit, chapters 6-8. In short, it explains how divinity, seeing the degeneration of humanity, decides to destroy all living things, save the few who are pure, led by Noah. He is told to build “an ark” (a boat) in which he takes his family and two of every animal, within which they survive a worldwide flood.

Moses was not the only one to tell the story. The story of Noah is older than the Bible.

Contemporary scholars believe the books of Moses were composed in the sixth century BC. Yet the story is told in books more than a thousand years older than the Bible.

From The Instructions of Shuruppak, Sumerian, 1700 BC or older:

“Day by day, standing constantly at ……. Something that was not a dream appeared, conversation ……, …… taking an oath by invoking heaven and earth. In the Ki-ur, the gods …… a wall. Zi-ud-sura, standing at its side, heard: "Side-wall standing at my left side, ……. Side-wall, I will speak words to you; take heed of my words, pay attention to my instructions. A flood will sweep over the …… in all the ……. A decision that the seed of mankind is to be destroyed has been made. The verdict, the word of the divine assembly, cannot be revoked. The order announced by An and Enlil cannot be overturned. Their kingship, their term has been cut off; their heart should be rested about this…” 
[…]

“All the windstorms and gales arose together, and the flood swept over the ……. After the flood had swept over the land, and waves and windstorms had rocked the huge boat for seven days and seven nights, Utu the sun God came out, illuminating heaven and earth. Zi-ud-sura could drill an opening in the huge boat and the hero Utu entered the huge boat with his rays. Zi-ud-sura the king prostrated himself before Utu. The king sacrificed oxen and offered innumerable sheep…

[…]

"Zi-ud-sura the king prostrated himself before An and Enlil. An and Enlil treated Zi-ud-sura kindly ……, they granted him life like a God, they brought down to him eternal life. At that time, because of preserving the animals and the seed of mankind, they settled Zi-ud-sura the king in an overseas country, in the land Dilmun, where the sun rises.”

This story is also preserved in Hindu scriptures as old or older than the Bible.

“…there was a powerful and great Rishi of the name of Manu. He was the son of Vivaswan and was equal unto Brahma in glory. And he far excelled his father and grandfather in strength, in power, in fortune, as also in religious austerities.

“…the dissolution of all this mobile and immobile world is nigh at hand. The time for the purging of this world is now ripe… Thou shall build a strong massive ark and have it furnished with a long rope. On that must thou ascend, O great Muni, with the seven Rishis and take with thee all the different seeds which were enumerated by regenerate Brahmanas in days of yore, and separately and carefully must thou preserve them therein… thou shall act according to my instructions, for, without my assistance, thou canst not save thyself from that fearful flood.'

[…]

“And there was water everywhere and the waters covered the heaven and the firmament also. …the fish diligently dragged the boat through the flood for many a long year and then… it towed the vessel towards the highest peak of the Himavat. And, O Bharata, the fish then told those on the vessel to tie it to the peak of the Himavat.” - The Mahabharata, Book 3: Vana Parva: Markandeya-Samasya Parva: Section 186

There are more: the story of the “great deluge” has been told not only by the Hebrews, Christians, Sumarians, and Hindus, but also by the Greeks (Deukalion), the K’iche’, Maya, Lac Courte Oreilles Ojibwa, and Muisca, people from many cultures, on many continents, and many eras.

Many interpret the worldwide sources of the story as evidence that the Noah story happened physically, literally, and conveys an historical account of a literal worldwide flood. Like all ancient stories, there are literal elements. Noah was a person. Civilizations were destroyed, and some inhabitants — those who listened to divine guidance — were saved. Yet, this is not the real importance of the story. Ancient history has little bearing on our suffering in these moments. The value of the story is much deeper than can be found in a literal interpretation. To get the real meanings, one must know how to read the code.

Symbolism and Myth
All genuine scriptures are allegorical and symbolic. They are not literal documentations of history, although some of the figures, personages, and characters described in the holy texts did exist. Nevertheless, their depiction within sacred scriptures have meant to serve as a representation of principles the spiritual devotee of any religion seeks to develop within themselves as part of the path that leads to complete development. The Ark of Noah hides this mystical science in a symbolic way.

The Bible is a collection of writings. The first part, the Old Testament, is translated from the Jewish tradition. In Judaism, that collection of writings is called the Tanakh. Specifically, the story of the Ark is in the Torah, the five books of Moses. Yet, in Judaism, there are many more scriptures, and not all are available to the public. In other words, there are levels of teachings. Christianity, on the other hand, has rejected most of those other writings, even though the founder of Christianity is a master of those writings. We point this out because Jesus, as a Jew and a master of Hebrew and the secret teachings of Judaism, has not been followed as an example by his students. They have willingly avoided the knowledge needed in order to understand their own tradition. A Christian who knows Hebrew and Kabbalah understands Jesus and Christianity far better.

The secret teachings of Judaism are beautifully documented in a scripture called “The Book of Splendor” (Sepher ha Zohar ). About the symbolic nature of the scriptures, it says:

“Rabbi Simeon says: ‘Woe to the man who says that the Torah came to relate stories, simply and plainly, and simpleton tales about Esau and Laban and the like. If it was so, even at the present day we could produce a Torah from simplistic matters, and perhaps even nicer ones than those. If the Torah came to exemplify worldly matters, even the rulers of the world have among them things that are superior. If so, let us follow them and produce from them a Torah in the same manner. It must be that all items in the Torah are of a superior nature and are uppermost secrets.

“Come and behold: the world above and the world below are measured with one scale. The children of Yisrael below correspond to the lofty angels above. It is written about the lofty angels: "who makes the winds his messengers" (Psalms 104:4). When they descend downwards, they are donned with the vestments of this world. If they had not acquired the dress for this world, they would not be able to exist in this world, and the world would not be able to stand them. And if this is so for the angels, how much more so is it for the Torah that created these messengers and all the worlds that exist due to her. Once it was brought down to this world, if it had not donned all these covering garments of this world, which are the stories and simplistic tales, the world would not have been able to tolerate it.”

Therefore, what is important is the message behind the veil.

Those who seek only literal interpretations of scripture become confused, because the Bible is not an explicit historical text. Scriptures were written to communicate spiritual knowledge, and the best way to communicate that kind of knowledge is in spiritual language, which is that language of metaphor, allegory, and symbolism. It would be absurd to believe that everything in America is red, white, and blue like its flag, yet this is what is being done by those who read spiritual documents literally: they interpret the symbols literally. A flag is a symbol. So are the characters and stories in scripture.

Those who seek physical evidence of the events described in the Bible are as foolish as someone trying to find the bodies of Humpty Dumpty or Jack and Jill. Children’s stories are designed to teach, not to be read as literal history. Scriptures also are designed to teach, but on a higher level than children’s stories. The characters of children’s stories represent qualities, events, ways of behaving; so do the characters of the scriptures, yet even more, they represent stages of spiritual development.

The events mentioned in the Bible may be drawn from past events, yet many more of its events, characters, and places never even existed in the first place. Again: each element of the Bible is primarily symbolic, not literal.

Although some scientists believe they have found the physical ark used by Noah in the Old Testament, this is not plausible, since there was never a wooden boat used by a man named Noah to escape a worldwide flood. The ark is a symbol.

What little actual history is in the Bible is the least significant content within it. Moreover, if one does attempt to interpret scriptures literally, it is easy to see that little of it makes logical, practical sense, and is often completely contradictory. This underscores the fact that the Bible is not meant to be interpreted literally.

Some examples of the symbolic nature of scripture include the life span of the Bible’s characters, with important figures living up from anywhere between 150 to 900 years old. Noah was reported to live 500 years old, a miraculous feat in itself, before he even begot children, whom also lived to extensive old age. Although in esoteric teachings we are taught that in previous eras, before humanity degenerated into barbarism, the life span of the human being was longer than it is today, still these numbers point towards something symbolic, not literal. This relates to the study of numerology within Judaism, known as the Kabbalah. By knowing Kabbalah, we can interpret these ages as something representative of stages in spiritual development, dramatized through the Bible’s characters like Noah, his wife, and his children. These numbers bear spiritual meaning, since the Bible is a book of spiritual instruction, and is not, as many people think, a literal documentation for the physical lifespans of historical individuals.

Although it is unknown to most of humanity, the fact is that religious and mystical literature was always written for a specially educated, small group, who in turn provided from that literature the tiny servings they felt would help the uneducated. Those lacking the special understanding would have no idea there was more meaning than what they were told. In fact, there are many levels of meaning in each scriptural story. Symbolically, we say there are seven levels of meaning to every scriptural tale. Yet, even that statement is symbolic, metaphorical.

Before we can analyze one important meaning of the story of Noah, we will summarize it here for those who are not familiar with it.

Synopsis of Genesis, Chapters 6 through 9
As humanity developed from the lineage of Adam, Eve, and their children, it progressively degenerated through cruelty, evilness, and barbarism. Therefore God repented for having created humanity, alongside the fish of the sea, the animals of the earth and the birds of the sky.

However, Noah and his family found grace before the eyes of God, for while the earth became filled with violence and corruption, Noah, his wife, and three sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth, were the favored generations of the Lord.

Therefore, God told Noah that He would destroy the earth, and instructed Noah to build an ark of gopher wood, fortified with pitch, the length being three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height thirty cubits. The ark would have a window, alongside three levels or stories to house Noah, his family, his son’s wives, and a male and female animal of every species from the earth, including cattle, birds and creeping things. Of every clean beast, Noah was instructed to take seven pairs; but of every unclean animal, only two. He was also told to take seven pairs for the birds of the air.

noah-3

God told Noah that he would cause rain to flood the earth for forty days and forty nights, and that all life on the earth would be extinguished. Noah was 600 years old when the rains came, during the seventeenth day of the second month of the year. He and his family were raised in the ark above the flood which swallowed earth and heaven, the waters having risen 15 cubits up above the earth. The floods prevailed over the earth 150 days.

Afterward, God provided wind to assuage the floods, remembering Noah, his family, the ark and the animals therein. The rains subsided and the floods diminished, thereby placing the ark, on the seventeenth day of the seventh month, above the mountains of Ararat. The waters continued to decrease until the tenth month, when the tops of the mountains could be seen.

Noah then sent a raven and a dove to scout the earth for dry land, having found no place to rest except for the ark. After seven more days, Noah sent the dove again to scout for dry land, and when the dove returned with an olive leaf in its beak, he knew the floods have subsided.

On the first day of the six hundredth and first year, Noah removed the covering of the ark and saw dry land. God then spoke to him, telling him to bring his family and the animals of the ark in order to be fruitful and multiply on the earth. Out of gratitude, Noah built an altar and made burnt offerings of every clean animal, and the fragrance was appealing to God, who said that He would never again destroy humanity as he had done with the flood.

God therefore made a covenant with Noah, his family, his successors, and the animals of the earth, that He would not destroy the earth as He did previously, and as a token of his promise, showed a rainbow representing His pact with man.

noah-6

The Ark
To begin understanding how the story of Noah is symbolic, let us examine the word “Ark.”

Firstly, there is no reference to a boat in the original Hebrew scriptures.

In English, the Bible says:

“Make thee an ark of gopher wood…” - Genesis / Bereshit 6:14

By popular interpretation, this has been understood to be “a boat.” Yet in Hebrew , the original writing, it says:

“Make thee a תבה tebah of gopher wood…” - Genesis / Bereshit 6:14

Tebah תבה means “chest, box, case,” or “hull, body.” In short, tebah indicates a container. In Hebrew , there are many words for boat or ship, but tebah is not one of them.

Obviously, the word tebah is pretty far from the word ark. So where did the word Ark come from?

Although the word ark does not appear in the Hebrew scriptures (Tanakh or Torah), it does appear in the Latin translations of the Bible as “arca,” which translates into different words, including 1) a chest, both as a box and the trunk of the human body, and 2) also as a coffin, as that which Joseph in the Old Testament was placed within when he died.

Of course, in the Bible, there are several types of “arks.” In each case, the “ark” is a container that protects something sacred. It is not a literal ship or a boat; rather, it is like the “hull” of a seed: it protects the life-giving elements inside.

The word “ark” is obviously related to “arcane, arcanum” which means something hidden, a secret, known only to those specially informed. Therefore, the Ark of Noah refers to something unbeknownst to the public level of religion. The arcane knowledge has always been reserved for those who were prepared beforehand to use it.

In order to understand that secret and what it means, we have to look at the implications of the story and the meanings of the Hebrew words used in it.

The Story of Noah Begins
The story of Noah begins in Chapter 6 of the book of Genesis.

“And הוהי Iod-Chavah [God] saw that the impurity [רע rah: pollution] of Adam was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only רע impurity continually.

“And it repented הוהי Iod-Chavah that he had made Adam on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

“And הוהי Iod-Chavah said, I will destroy Adam whom I have created from the face of the earth; both Adam, and behemoth [animal, beast], and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the heavens; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

“But [Noach, Noah] found grace in the eyes of הוהי Iod-Chavah.” –Genesis 6:5-8

So this story really starts with Adam.

Adam and Eve
The first drama in the Bible is the story of Adam and Eve [Genesis 1-4], who at first lived in a state of bliss and knew divinity personally, yet later chose to eat the “forbidden fruit” of the Tree of Knowledge of “Good and Evil.” Those important words are written tob ve rah in Hebrew , which mean “goodness and impurity.” They imply that the Tree of Knowledge is dual: it can be used for benefit through purity, or harm through pollution or impurity. Adam and Eve left Eden because they broke the commandment given to them by divinity, thus they became polluted by רע rah: impurity. That is how they lost the ability to walk and talk with Elohim.

Alexandre-Cabanel-The-Expulsion-of-Adam-and-Eve-from-the-Garden-of-Paradise

As we mentioned, the importance of these stories is found in how they apply to us now. Although Adam and Eve have significance in relation with the ancient past, the brilliance of Moses is clearly seen in how by the grace of the divine he wrote very deep, multilayered stories.

Adam and Eve relate to us personally here and now.

Adam represents our mind, our psychological state. Eve, the “mother of the living,” who brings living things into the world, represents our sexual organs. Eve, our sexual organs, offers the forbidden fruit to our mind, Adam. When we “eat of it,” we leave “Eden,” a Hebrew word that means “bliss.” To leave Eden means to leave behind that state of being in which one knows the Elohim personally, directly. Naturally, that is the state of all of us now. If someone claims to know God, we think they have gone insane. Yet, that was the primordial state of humanity.

Cain and Abel
After the story of Adam and Eve occurs that of their “children” Cain and Abel. Their story represents the conflict in us between the innate purity of the psyche (represented by Abel) and the ever-dissatisfied desires we have (Cain). Our desires “kill” the purity of the psyche (Cain kills Abel). Now, Abel, that part of us, does not cease to exist; by “dying” is represented how it has become almost completely powerless, trapped, overwhelmed, by the spread of desire. In other words, when desire rules us psychologically, Abel is rendered “dead.”

cainkillsabel

We let our desires (Cain) kill our conscience (Abel).

"Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him." - Genesis 4

So what happens next in the Bible? The story of Noah.

Let us review. This is a summary of chapters 1-4 of Genesis, from the point of view we are examining:

1st: Adam and Eve (mind and sexual organs) succumb to temptation and leave the blissful state.
2nd: Cain (desire) “kills” Abel (the innate purity of the mind), rendering it impotent.
3rd: Divinity sees us in our corrupted state: divorced from Eden (the state of bliss in which we know divinity directly), ruled by desire (Cain), craving for even more impurity (ער rah). Since our inner divinity loves us and wants to help us, it regrets our being in that state.
So you see, this is not hard to understand.

Our current state of being is that of “Adam and Eve” in the wilderness: we suffer, we cannot talk to God face to face, in fact we may not even believe in divinity. Yet, if we learn how to rectify that mistake, and overcome the temptation of Eve, we can return to Eden: a state of happiness and spiritual perception. That is the point of the story of Noah.

The Cleansing of "the Earth"
So let us read this passage again, but first, let us understand the symbol of the word “earth.” The “earth” represents that which houses our psyche; the “earth” is our body; it is our “kingdom,” our own world or land. We live in our “earth,” the body, yet that body is not just physical. It is also the body we inhabit when we dream, when we imagine, daydream, or fantasize. When we dream, we inhabit a kind of body that is not physical; that body is also our “earth.” So altogether, we call that matter our “earth.”

bacchanal

The bacchanal that is always ongoing in our minds.

“And יהוה Iod-Chavah [our inner divinity] saw that the impurity [ער rah: pollution] of [our mind] was great in the [body], and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only impurity continually.

“And it repented יהוה Iod-Chavah that he had made [the mind that is] in the [body], and it grieved him at his heart.

“And יהוה Iod-Chavah said, I will destroy [that corrupted mind] whom I have created from the [image] of the [body]; both [the mind], and [the animal ego], and the creeping thing [perverted elements in our mind], and the fowls of the heavens [distracting thoughts that fly in fantasy]…” –Genesis 6

Psychologically, this story makes sense now. None of us are “meek sheep,” or “innocent angels.” Our minds are deeply corrupted with pride, lust, anger, envy, greed, etc. All of that exists because of the choices we have made: tempted by desire, we grow those elements in our psyche, and have been growing them for centuries. So, just as happens on a large scale in nature when a region becomes sick, nature must cleanse it to prevent the spread of impurity. Our own inner divinity must also cleanse us. Yet, that cleansing is not pleasant. This is the meaning behind many stories in the scriptures: the story of Lot, Moses, Adam and Eve, Job, Babylon, Egypt… all represent how our mind — a state of psychological slavery to impure elements — has to be purged, cleansed, and destroyed, so that the pure element — the Consciousness — can be freed.

The Preservation of Noah
“But [Noach, Noah] found grace in the eyes of יהוה Iod-Chavah.” - Genesis 6:8

So, amongst all that degeneration within us, the divinity sees one element worth saving: Noah.

The Hebrew name נח Noah has two letters.

The first letter, נ Nun, represents a fish.
The second letter, ח Chet, is the root of the word Chai, “life.”
In all the versions of the flood story from around the world, because of widespread corruption, all living things have to be destroyed. Yet, for life to continue, that which is pure is preserved by staying above the waters. In the Hindu versions of the story, a God in the form of a fish guides the pure souls to the safety of a mountain top.

The fish avatara of Vishnu

“…the [God in the form of a] fish diligently dragged the boat through the flood for many a long year and then… it towed the vessel towards the highest peak of the Himavat. And, O Bharata, the [divine] fish then told those on the vessel to tie it to the peak of the Himavat.” - The Mahabharata, Book 3: Vana Parva: Markandeya-Samasya Parva: Section 186

It is exceedingly interesting that the name Noah hides these very elements: the fish, and life itself.

The fish is a core symbol in all religions, especially Christianity. The primary symbol of early Christians was not the cross — it was a fish. Yet few know why. Jesus himself pointed out its importance when he pointed towards Jonah and the story of the great fish (the name Jonah also has the letter נ Nun, the fish, in it). One of the great miracles of Jesus is that of the loaves and the fishes, another important symbolic event. There are very deep esoteric mysteries related to the fish, mysteries completely ignored by the modern interpretations of the scriptures.

In each case, the fish represents the life force in the waters. Clearly, that is what is indicated by the very name Noah: נ Nun (fish) + ח Chet (life). Where do we find that in ourselves? For that, we look to the source of our lives: the sexual energy. The sperm and the ovum are “fish” in the “waters” of sexuality. When combined, life emerges. The only way to create life is through working with those “seeds.”

Thus, “Noah” is a seed hidden inside of us. Noah is the “seed of the soul.”

Noah represents the true nature of our psyche, which is known in different traditions by names like the Consciousness, the soul, the jiva, the “buddha nature” — a pure, unblemished, naturally radiant and cognizant spark of the divine, which through a specific science can be grown into a fully-fledged master, angel, or buddha (whatever name you want to use). In fact, the name Noach means “rest.” If you have studied Hinduism or Buddhism, you will see immediately that this corresponds to the ultimate goal of those traditions: Nirvana, which means “rest, cessation.” That is why the scripture continues with:

“These are the result of Noah: Noah was a righteous איש iysh [masculine fire] and perfect in his generation [sexual outcome], and Noah walked with Elohim [gods and goddesses]. And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.” - Genesis 6:9-10

In case you did not know, the Hebrew word Elohim is plural: it means “gods and goddesses.” It is odd that people claim Judaism and Christianity are monotheistic, when the scriptures themselves are not.

“So Elohim [gods and goddesses] created Adam in their image, in the image of Elohim [gods and goddesses] created they them: male-female created they them.” - Genesis 1:27

Let us not digress too far, however.

We were explaining that Noach represents the seed of the soul. This is clearly explained in the very next passage of the scripture.

The Creation of the Soul
“These are the result of Noah: Noah was a righteous איש iysh and perfect in his generation, and Noah walked with Elohim [gods and goddesses]. And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.” - Genesis 6:9-10

The three “sons” of Noah are symbolic of the three parts of the fully developed soul.

In spite of the degeneration that has corrupted us all, “Noah” must survive if the soul is to be developed.

If this idea about developing the soul seems new to you, it may be because that aspect of Christianity was edited out of the teaching. Nevertheless, Jesus did say:

“With patience ye will [eventually] possess your souls.” - Luke 21:19

The developed soul is represented by the wedding garment mentioned by Jesus, the chariot of Ezekiel, the chariot of Krishna, the solar boat of the Egyptians, the golden body of the Greeks, and many other mythological symbols.

krsna-chariot

From The Mahabharata, Krishna (Christ) drives the chariot (Solar Bodies) of Arjuna (the Human Soul).

The soul can only be made through a “second birth,” taught by Jesus as resulting from the Holy Spirit (fire) and a secret living water, both of which were discussed at length by Jesus, and are hidden symbolically throughout the scriptures.

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

“Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of [living] water and of the [Holy] Spirit [which is fire], he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

“That which is born of the flesh is flesh [physical]; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit[-ual; in other words: soul].” - John 3

Birth is sexual, whether relating to physical birth or spiritual birth. The soul has to be made, born. We do not have a true soul until we make one. We have the seed of the soul, the potential to be born, but we are not “born again” until the soul is born.

No one is born by saying words or believing something. Birth is a sexual matter.

Noah is the seed of the soul, and the spark that starts the fire.

“Noah a righteous איש [iysh]…” - Genesis 6:9

The word איש can be translated as “man,” yet the symbolism of this word is overwhelming: it is the word אש esh, “fire,” with the letter יiod in the middle. י Iod has so many meanings that we gave several lectures just about it: it represents a man, the covenant between man and God, circumcision, the phallus, and much more. So איש can be understood as representing someone who is following the commandments, obeying the pact of fire (sexual purity), who “stands in the midst of the fire of the furnace and is not burned” (see Daniel 3, where the three men, the parts of the soul, stand in the fire of the furnace with a mysterious fourth man, like Noah and his three “sons.” You should also be aware that “furnace” is etymologically connected to the word “Fornication.”)

fieryfurnacebiblestory

In synthesis, by preserving our inner Noah, our divinity can purge the impurity that traps us in suffering. That inner fire, Noah, has to be protected in the ark-anum — the secret knowledge — within which he will float upon the waters that consume all impurity. You see: the water and the fire work together.

The Corruption of the Earth
The scripture continues:

“The earth [body] also was corrupt before Elohim [the gods and goddesses], and the earth [body] was filled with wrongdoing.

“And Elohim [the gods and goddesses] looked upon the earth [body], and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth [body].

“And Elohim [the gods and goddesses] said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth [body] is filled with wrongdoing through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth [body].” –Genesis 6:11-13

This does not mean that by destroying the physical body liberation is achieved. The corruption of the “earth” is deeper than that: it is a corruption of more than just the physical body. Death does not clean your mind of impurities. The cleansing we need cannot be had through mere physical death. That is why the gods have to intervene.

We explained that the “earth” is not just the physical body: it is our matter, which extends beyond the physical world. When you feel angry, that quality takes over your mind, heart, and physical body. All of that together is your “earth.” So, to destroy that anger, it is necessary to destroy it where it resides: in the mind itself. When you dream, you dream with that anger. Your physical body is not there; it is asleep in its bed. Yet, in your dream, you are still in your earth, but not your physical earth. So, the corruption of the earth extends beyond just the physical body. The cleansing we need must also extend beyond physicality. That is why hell exists: it cleanses the mind. Yet, if one becomes clean first, there is no need to go there.

The Seed in the Shell
In fact, we need the physical body in order to achieve liberation. You see, as well as being related to the true nature of our being, Noah is also related to elements in us physically. To be saved from the flood,” Noah has to be preserved in the Ark.

We explained that the Ark is not a boat, but is a deep symbol with many overlapping meanings. The Ark represents the teaching: the arcanum. The Ark also represents the physical body. Hidden within the body, secretly, is a precious, life-giving, divine element. In other words, your body is the hull (tebah: hull) of the seed (Noah), and inside of it are the raw elements from which something great can be created. That seed is your own inner Noah (Manu).

Every seed contains an archetype. Notice the words: ark-etype. An archetype is a blueprint, a plan, a potential. The word archetype comes from Latin archetypum, from Greek arkhetypon "pattern, model, figure on a seal," from arkhetypos "first-moulded," from arkhe- “first."

Within the seed of a plant is the potential to become that plant. Likewise, within the human seed (semen and ovum) are archetypes: potentials — yet, in our case, that potential has not been fully realized. We have a human shape, but we are not like Noah, Moses, Manu, Zi-ud-sura. Yet, we have that potential: it is in our ark, our seed.

Building the Ark
So if the Ark is the secret science and also the physical body, why does Noah have to build it? Because the Ark represents stages of development of that body.

The-Ark-of-Noah

The common English translation says,

“Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.” - Gen 6:14

There is no such wood called “gopher.” Scholars have debated its identity, but will never uncover it, because it is not a literal wood.

In Hebrew , this passage is עצי־גפר. The first two letters עץ ets can be interpreted as “wood” or “tree.” There are two trees of significance in the Bible, both of which are written with עצ:

עץ החיים: the Tree of Life
עץ הדעת טוב ורע: the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil
This whole story started with the abuse of the Tree of Knowledge. It is why Adam and Eve had to leave the garden. Thus, the way to return is by the same tree. Likewise, it then makes sense to translate עצ of this passage not as "wood," but as "tree."

The Hebrew word גפר gopher is shortened from גפרית, gophriyth, sulphur (called in the Bible “brimstone”). In Alchemy, sulphur is the symbol of fire. Thus, this passage actually says:

“Make thee a tebah [container] from the sulfurous tree…” - Gen 6:14

The sulfurous tree is the same as the “burning bush” seen by Moses. It is a “matchstick,” wood topped by sulphur, and used to start fires. It is the Tree of Knowledge.

burning bush

In the Bible, “knowledge” or “to know” is sexual:

“Now the man knew his wife Eve, and she conceived and bore Cain... - Genesis 4:1

“And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS...

“Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?” - Luke 1:30-34

In the Bible, knowledge implies sexual knowledge. Moreover, it is related to fire: sexual desire is a “burning” energy. It is a kind of fire, that if used wisely, can be very constructive. Yet if used foolishly, can be very destructive. The “Tree of Knowledge of good and evil” is dualistic, meaning sexual knowledge can be good or evil. Naturally, to build the ark, to return to Eden, one has to know how to use the tree in the good way.

This sentence continues:

“…qenim shalt thou make in the tebah…” - Gen 6:14

In English, qenim is translated as “rooms,” but actually it is plural for reeds, canes, or stalks. The reed, cane, staff, or rod is an ancient symbol of the spinal column of a spiritually developed person. The ancient masters carried staves not for fashion, but as a symbol of the fire developed in their spinal column. It is plural here because the work to create the Ark is a collaboration between man and woman.

priestess

John Collier painted this portrait of a Greek Baccante with her symbolic items: the skin of the slain animal desire, the wreath of victory on her head, and in her hand, the staff topped by a pine cone, symbol of the awakened pineal gland, the "seat of the soul," the "eye of Brahma," or in other words, the source of spiritual vision.

It is of great significance that the whole of this description occurs in chapter six of Genesis / Bereshit. Firstly, because the name of the book means “beginning” and thus explains how to begin the spiritual path. Secondly, because in Hebrew the number six is the letter ו Vav, which represents the spinal column. So, this chapter is about the work with our spinal column.

Why is the spinal column important spiritually? It is the conduit that transmits all the energies of our nervous systems, and supports the energetic channels between our sexual organs and our brain. The caduceus of Mercury represents this symbolically, as does the staff topped by a pine cone as carried by the masters of old (the pine cone represents the pineal gland, whose very name has pine in it).

“…and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.” - Gen 6:14

“Pitch” refers to how the vessel is hermetically sealed, to keep the impure flood waters out.

Continuing:

“And this Assiah shalt thou make…” - Gen 6:15

In Kabbalah, we study Four Worlds. Assiah is the fourth. It relates to the final state of a creative work, when the work is completed and made. Assiah can also refer to the physical body. (Assiah is mentioned in the book of Revelation, but mistranslated as “Asia.”)

“The length of the tebah shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.” - Gen 6:15

Every Hebrew letter is also a number. So these numbers are actually letters:

300: ש Shin, which represents fire
50: נ Nun, which represents a fish
30: ל Lamed, which represents a staff
These letters represent the work that must be done in the physical body in order to achieve liberation.

The letter ש Shin relates to the trinity, the three primary forces. It is the creative fire at the base of life. It is the fire that enflamed the burning bush before Moses. ש Shin represents the power of creation inherent in every atom, a power that we must harness and direct towards liberation, rather than using our energies to degenerate ourselves further.

The letter נ Nun is life in movement, the “fish” or living power of sexuality. As already mentioned, the fish resides in our sexual waters. By harnessing that force, we can achieve the “second birth.” Jesus spoke often of the “living water.”

The letter ל Lamed is the staff of Moses, the rod of Aaron, which represent the creative fire of the letter Shin “raised upon a pole” as a brazen serpent, like Moses did. This creative fire, raised up the spinal column “healed the Israelites” (see Numbers 21). More specifically, it is the qenim (reed, cane) of the previous verse, but developed, enflamed. In the East, this is called Kundalini. In the book of Acts, it is represented by the fire that alights on the heads of the apostles (after rising up their spinal columns).

Maino Pentecostes 1620-1625

Spiritual illumination is produced by an abundance of inner light. That light is radiated from the fire, the letter ש Shin, which represents the fundamental trinity of forces in all things, and which is within the sulfurous wood of the Tree of Knowledge within us.

The story of Noah represents an alchemical process of transmutation, in which the base matter is purged and purified and a perfected matter can be elaborated.

The rest of the story — the flood, the forty days and nights, the death of the impure – all relate to the psychological transformations we must undergo on the spiritual path.

Spiritual advancement is accomplished through purification and transformation. All that is impure in us must die, while the purity must be developed and perfected.

When we study Kabbalah we know that תבה Tebah, the Ark, is the physical body. This body receives the forces of divinity, known as יהוה Iod-Chavah or Jehovah in the Old Testament, which can be activated if one knows the secret, the method, the ark or Arcanum. Religious writings throughout antiquity have referred to the need for purification within the body, for “know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?” (1 Corinthians 6:19). When there is filthiness in the body and soul, the flood waters of degeneration destroy it. But if the soul knows the secret science, the ark or Great Arcanum, then it can develop like Noah in order to be righteous and favored by divinity.

However, in the Book of Genesis we find that humanity had abused these energies for their own personal, egotistical whims.

The Flood and the Earth
Divinity throughout all traditions instructed the prophets and guides of humanity to respect the use of the body and mind, since it is a temple that can house the forces of God. It is only when human beings lost sight of the divine purpose of their temple did they fall into degeneration and sin.

The ark, or physical body, was once considered sacred by all ancient religious traditions, and that it is the storehouse of spiritual principles that can liberate the human being.

"The Ark is the sacred Argha of the Hindus, and thus the relation in which it stands to Noah's ark may be easily inferred when we learn that the Argha was an oblong vessel, used by the high priests as a sacrificial chalice in the worship of Isis, Astarte, and Venus-Aphrodite, all of whom were goddesses of the generative powers of nature, or of matter—hence representing symbolically the Ark containing the germs of all living things." - H.P. Blavatsky, Isis Unveiled

The animals of the Noah story represent these germs of all living things, the sperm and ovum contained within the physical body. These germs within man and woman are represented by the “male and female animals” stored within the “ark.” These primordial root elements can provide physical life or spiritual life, depending upon their usage. This is the hidden principle behind the Book of Genesis, which has traditionally been read as a story of the “generations” of Adam and Eve—a literal history—but the symbols actually signify the process of generating, creating, and cleansing the soul.

When God said, “Be fruitful and multiply on the earth” in Genesis, this is a reference to the conservation and propagation of one’s vital, spiritual forces. However, these divine influences can only flourish within us by building the Ark: by practicing the arcane or secret science. Those who do not practice the secret teachings as given in the scriptures are swallowed by the floodwaters of destruction.

This story is a tremendous warning regarding the behavior of humanity in this day—if people continue to indulge in passion, violence, greed, promiscuity, and war—then the Elohim have no choice but to annihilate this humanity out of compassion for the soul, so that it may resonate with the divine laws after its purification. This destruction is not just physical, but psychological and spiritual, since when the physical body dies, the psyche continues in more subtle levels of matter, energy, and Consciousness. Physical death does not guarantee purification and salvation, since this is something internal, beyond the physical world.

It is necessary to understand that there are two ways for divinity to purify the psyche.

“Behold, I set before you the way of life, and the way of death.” –Jeremiah 21:8

No matter what, the psyche must be purified. However, if we chose not to willingly purify ourselves as Noah did, then nature will do it for us, through the process religions call “hell.” This path of failure is one of great suffering, and in the end provides no development for the soul. On the other hand we have the path of life, of reunion with the divine that results in beautification, sanctification, knowledge, and harmony with divinity. It is represented in the lives of the prophets, saints, buddhas, etc.

Despite the sufferings, difficulties, and sacrifices involved by walking this path, it is the only one that results in the complete development and liberation of the soul, for as Jesus of Nazareth taught:

“Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction [Gehenna], and many there be which go in thereat:

“Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” –Matthew 7:13-14

This “straight and narrow way” to heaven, a pure state of being, is entered in by the few who long to obey divinity and who willingly work on their defects in order to be purified, developing virtue, humility, compassion, and love as a result of approaching divinity. Most of humanity throughout the different ages have chosen to be cleansed by nature, as evidenced throughout world mythologies and scripture. While there is a physical component to the destruction of humanity, the most painful process is within the inferior dimensions of the cosmos, known as hell, Gehenna, where the disincarnated souls continue to suffer from their own afflictions and desires until they are cleansed and recycled through the destructive powers of nature.

Before this process of purification in hell, humanity must first be annihilated through physical catastrophes. While the Biblical text explained that the Elohim would not destroy humanity as in the past, we find other natural disasters occurring on an exponential scale in our world today, such as tsunamis, earth quakes, sea quakes, volcanoes, and devastating storms. Many thousands of people have died already and survivors are forced to endure great tribulation resulting from destruction and poverty.

This is tremendous suffering on the physical level, yet the souls of the dead continue in other levels of matter, energy, and Consciousness with the same preoccupations, worries, sufferings, and hatreds they had when they were physically alive. However, in the inferior dimensions of nature, which can be accessed when one goes to sleep in order to dream, such sufferings are by far more intense than what can be experienced in our physical world.

Such cataclysms are a gentle prelude to a much worse catastrophe that has been mentioned by the prophets and teachers of all the world’s great religions and spiritual traditions, and which is symbolically hidden in the story of Noah. If we wish to avoid the prophesied destruction mentioned throughout all the great religious writings, then we must learn and practice this mysterious science. However, few have ever entered onto the path of life, which is the path followed by Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad, and the great spiritual guides. To follow it takes tremendous courage, since it requires the complete destruction of one’s psychological impurity.

Many “spiritual” people want to live in the new heaven and new earth mentioned in the Book of Revelation, but they ignore that it is primarily a symbol — a reference to a pure state of mind. In order to inhabit the new world, the mind and heart must be cleansed. This is impossible to accomplish without knowing the secret science of Noah, since those who are recycled by nature do not gain anything but suffering, and who will not be privileged to populate the newly-purified world.

It is only once our internal psychological filthiness is eradicated by the floodwaters of spiritual practice that Elohim can establish a new heaven and a new earth, meaning: a new life for the practitioner of genuine religion, the heavens representing a pure state of Consciousness, and the earth referring to purity within one’s physicality and mind—the temple of the divine.

"Now learn a parable of the fig [or Gopher] tree; when his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

"Verily I say unto you, This generation [of humanoids] shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

"But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in those days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." - Matthew 24: 32-39

ako su svi ti spisi stariji od biblije  a govore o arci i potopu znači da je bilo više potopa, taman za objašnjenje topljenja leda nakon nekoliko manjih ledenih doba

metilda wrote:ako su svi ti spisi stariji od biblije  a govore o arci i potopu znači da je bilo više potopa, taman za objašnjenje topljenja leda nakon nekoliko manjih ledenih doba

Sumerani su imali prikaz sunčevog sustava s deset planeta  ( i kod nekih drugih drevnih naroda postoje slični prikazi sun. sustava ). Upravo taj jedan je uljez u našem sustavu. Orbita mu je eliptična i on je uzrok tom povjesnom događaju - ''Veliki potop". No svaki put kad prolazi kroz naš sustav, ne uzrokuje uvijek kataklizme. U točki najbliže Suncu bit će u nama još dalekoj budućnosti. No, od toga je važnije pitanje kad će ''Oni koji su sišli s neba" ( Annakin, Anunnakiji ) - stvoritelji modernog čovjeka ponovno se vratiti na naš planet.

red wolf wrote:

metilda wrote:ako su svi ti spisi stariji od biblije  a govore o arci i potopu znači da je bilo više potopa, taman za objašnjenje topljenja leda nakon nekoliko manjih ledenih doba

Sumerani su imali prikaz sunčevog sustava s deset planeta  ( i kod nekih drugih drevnih naroda postoje slični prikazi sun. sustava ). Upravo taj jedan je uljez u našem sustavu. Orbita mu je eliptična i on je uzrok tom povjesnom događaju - ''Veliki potop". No svaki put kad prolazi kroz naš sustav, ne uzrokuje uvijek kataklizme. U točki najbliže Suncu bit će u nama još dalekoj budućnosti. No, od toga je važnije pitanje kad će ''Oni koji su sišli s neba" ( Annakin, Anunnakiji ) - stvoritelji modernog čovjeka ponovno se vratiti na naš planet.

je li astronomija dokazala postojanje tog desetog planeta?

metilda wrote:

red wolf wrote:

metilda wrote:ako su svi ti spisi stariji od biblije  a govore o arci i potopu znači da je bilo više potopa, taman za objašnjenje topljenja leda nakon nekoliko manjih ledenih doba

Sumerani su imali prikaz sunčevog sustava s deset planeta  ( i kod nekih drugih drevnih naroda postoje slični prikazi sun. sustava ). Upravo taj jedan je uljez u našem sustavu. Orbita mu je eliptična i on je uzrok tom povjesnom događaju - ''Veliki potop". No svaki put kad prolazi kroz naš sustav, ne uzrokuje uvijek kataklizme. U točki najbliže Suncu bit će u nama još dalekoj budućnosti. No, od toga je važnije pitanje kad će ''Oni koji su sišli s neba" ( Annakin, Anunnakiji ) - stvoritelji modernog čovjeka ponovno se vratiti na naš planet.

je li astronomija dokazala postojanje tog desetog planeta?

Oduvijek sumnjaju. Upravo je jedan potencijalni pronađen i potraga za njim traje s pozornošću. Uostalom, postoji teza o planetu Phaeton-u koji se nalazio između Marsa i Jupitera, ali onda ga je nešto uništilo i od njega je ostao samo asteroidni pojas.

Twenty-One Reasons Noah’s Worldwide Flood Never Happened


Feature
Dr. Lorence G. Collins
Skeptical Inquirer Volume 42.2, March / April 2018
 
Twenty-One Reasons Noah’s Worldwide Flood Never Happened
 
Young-Earth creationists claim that the Paleozoic sedimentary rocks in the Grand Canyon and the Mesozoic sedimentary rocks of the Grand Staircase north of the canyon, in which Zion and Bryce Canyon National Parks occur, were deposited during Noah’s worldwide flood about 4,500 years ago (Hill 2002; Hill and Moshier 2009). I realize that readers of Skeptical Inquirer accept modern scientific views on this subject, but this examination of the creationist claims might be useful when communicating with others less imbued with scientific thinking.
There are at least twenty-one scientific reasons a worldwide flood recounted in the Bible cannot have happened.

1.    The stair-stepped appearance of erosion of sedimentary rocks in the Grand Canyon with sandstones and limestones forming cliffs and shales forming gentle slopes cannot happen if all these rocks were deposited in less than one year. If the Grand Canyon had been carved soon after these rocks were deposited by a worldwide flood, they would not have had time to harden into solid rock and would have been saturated with water. Therefore, the sandstones and limestones would have slumped during the carving of the canyon and would not have formed cliffs (Hill et al. 2016).

2.    Salt and gypsum deposits, more than 200 feet thick, occur in the Paradox Formation in Utah just 200 miles north of the Grand Canyon, and these deposits are the same age as the Supai rocks in the Grand Canyon that were supposedly also deposited by Noah’s flood. Similar salt deposits, up to 3,000 feet thick, exist in various places on all continents and in layers of all geologic ages, and these deposits can only be produced by evaporation of sea water. Such evaporation could not have happened in repeated intervals in the midst of the forty days and forty nights of raining and during the supposed continuous deposition of sedimentary rocks by a worldwide flood and in which the only drying and evaporation is said to have occurred at the end of the flood (Collins 2006; 2009; 2012; Hill et al. 2016).

3.    Sand dunes with giant cross bedding occur in the Mesozoic rocks in Zion National Park and are further evidence that desert conditions occurred at the time of the supposed flood (Senter 2011; Collins 2017).

4.    Fossilized mud cracks occur in the Cambrian Tapeats Formation on top of the Precambrian Vishnu schist at the bottom of the canyon and indicate that drying conditions existed during the alleged worldwide Noah’s flood, and these drying conditions occurred at the very beginning of this supposed flood. Although mud cracks can also form in mud under water by compression that squeezes out water from the mud, such compression is not likely to occur during a flood. Moreover, fossilized mud cracks are found in other formations that were supposedly deposited during Noah’s flood, and these mud cracks occur in red shales that coexist with salt and gypsum layers. Therefore, these mud cracks were likely formed in deltaic mud flats that were exposed to the atmosphere where their iron-bearing minerals reacted with oxygen in the air to form red hematite (Collins 2006; Senter 2011; Hill et al. 2016).

5.    Raindrop prints occur in many places around the world, which could not have been formed or preserved if the muds (now in shales) containing these prints were deposited under water during Noah’s flood (Senter 2011; Hill et al. 2016).

6.    Nests of dinosaur eggs are found in several places around the world, and it is illogical that dinosaurs could have had enough time to create these nests and lay their eggs while they were fleeing from rising waters to reach higher ground (Senter 2011; Hill et al. 2016).

7.    The White Cliffs of Dover on the eastern coast of England consist of chalk layers, up to 350 feet thick, that are composed of fossilized coccoliths (a kind of algae), and these layers are the same age as the sedimentary rocks that overlie giant cross-bedded sandstones in Zion National Park. Therefore, they were supposedly also deposited by Noah’s flood. But coccoliths are very tiny and have chloroplasts that require sunlight and must float close to the ocean surface to get energy from the sun. Because of this, all of them could not have been living at the same time to depths of 350 feet in the one year in which the flood is said to have occurred because that many organisms in the water at the same time would have blocked out the sun from organisms below the near-surface (Collins 2015a).

8.    Up to 4,590-foot thicknesses of radiolarians occur on the Pacific Ocean floor. Radiolarians are tiny marine organisms with silica skeletons; they contain chloroplasts and must float near the ocean surface to obtain sunlight. The rate at which dead radiolarians settle to the bottom of the ocean is too slow for that thickness and number of radiolarians to accumulate in the 4,500 years since Noah’s flood. Although radiolarians are not found in the sedimentary rocks of the Grand Canyon, fossilized radiolarians are common in sedimentary layers in other parts of the world of the same geologic age, and each of these layers contains distinctly different radiolarian species that are among more than 4,000 different species that have been identified. Chaotic rushing waters of a tsunami in Noah’s flood would have been unable to sort out these different species in different geologic ages from those living early in the flood to those created late in the flood (Collins 2015a).

9.    None of the sedimentary rocks in the Grand Canyon contains fossilized pollen grains that are produced by grasses, pines, and flowering trees and plants, whereas these same rocks in the canyon contain only spores of algae, ferns, moss, and fungi. A worldwide flood would be expected to mix these tiny structures if all were alive at the same time of Noah’s flood, and this mixing did not occur. How can a rush of water in a tsunami sort out and separate such tiny reproductive structures from each other? (Hill et al. 2016).

10. The Redwall limestone in the Grand Canyon contains billions and billions of jumbled sea lily (crinoid) fossils in multiple layers, and such marine animals would have had to grow on stalks on the ocean floor and cover the whole Earth at space intervals of one foot apart if all were alive at the same time during Noah’s flood. That distribution and abundance is extremely unlikely in less than one year’s time. Moreover, there would have been the need for already available, precipitated, calcium carbonate crystals somewhere to be carried into the Grand Canyon area to be deposited as limestone to host these fossils. This seems highly unlikely because the source of the calcium requires long periods (tens of thousands of years) of chemical weathering of calcium-bearing rocks, such as basalt lava flows, to produce such a large volume of limestone that extends, not only in the Grand Canyon, but also in the Redwall limestone across most of western and central United States in buried sedimentary layers (Collins 2015a; Hill et al. 2016).

11. If all limestones were deposited by Noah’s flood during a giant tsunami, then all limestone layers should show evidence of fossils being jumbled by rushing water. This is not the case. The presence of Silurian limestone layers that are older than the Redwall limestone occur with consistent sequences at constant thicknesses over hundreds of square miles in Illinois, Iowa, and Wisconsin, and they lack any fossils in a jumbled array. These consistent thicknesses indicate that these limestone layers could not have been deposited by a tsunami, and these layers could only have been formed in quiet water by slow chemical precipitation of the calcium carbonate during tens of thousands of years. Thus, the limestones around the world, alleged to be deposited by Noah’s flood, were not deposited by a rush of flood water in a tsunami in less than one year. Many other examples occur in sedimentary rocks around the world where fossils of communities of many different marine animals are totally undisturbed (Senter 2011; Collins 2015a; 2017).

12. Abundant fusain (charcoal) is found in several different sedimentary rocks around the world that were supposedly deposited by Noah’s flood, which is good evidence that a worldwide flood never happened. Fires that burn forests are not likely to occur in the midst of forty days and nights of rain (Senter 2011).

13. River terraces exist on the sides of Colorado River canyon walls that give ages of deposition at the top of 350,000 years and at the bottom of 38,000 years, and these ages were determined by two entirely different methods and are much beyond the 4,500 years that young-Earth creationists claim is the age of the sedimentary rocks deposited during Noah’s flood (Collins 2015b; 2017).

14. Scientific observations and measurements show that the canyon of the Colorado River was eroded by rates of 80 to 458 meters per million years at different places along the canyon (Collins 2015b; 2017).

15. The coarsely crystalline Zoraster granite occurs in the Vishnu schist in the bottom of the Grand Canyon. Experimental work shows that coarse crystals in granite are formed only at depths of five miles or more in the Earth’s crust and that at these depths, the rate of cooling of rock melts (magma) at temperatures of more than 800 degrees C require at least 5 million years before temperatures are low enough that crystals can start to form and slowly increase in size. Therefore, the age of the Earth must be more than 6,000 years and much older than when Noah’s flood supposedly occurred (Collins 2017).

16. The rate of erosion of the Zoraster granite in the floor of Colorado River in Grand Canyon, as measured by how fast the erosion occurs on a yearly basis from year to year, is about a thousandth of an inch per year. This means that the carving of the Grand Canyon took millions of years—not less than a year in a sudden rush of water draining from three lakes at the end of Noah’s flood (Collins 2017).

17. The average thickness of sedimentary rocks around the world in the continents that were supposedly deposited by Noah’s flood is about 1,800 meters (5,905 feet) (Nelson 2012). If just 1 percent of this thickness represents fossil remains of marine animals that were alive at the same time during Noah’s flood, then the whole world would have been covered with 59 feet of living marine animals, such as clams, snails, corals, trilobites, and sponges. That many animals living at the same time during that single year would have been impossible. The value of 1 percent is not unreasonable when some limestone layers are composed of nearly 100 percent fossils. Even if 0.1 percent of the sedimentary rock thickness contained all marine animals that were alive at the same time in the year of Noah’s flood, that means that the whole world would have been covered with 5.9 feet of animals, and that still is too many animals. The impossible numbers of fossils of coccoliths (Reason 7), radiolarians (Reason 8), and sea lilies (Reason 10), are illustrative of this fact. Moreover, if only one out of 10,000 animals living on the land (amphibians, reptiles, birds, and mammals) are preserved as fossils in the sedimentary rocks deposited by Noah’s flood, then Noah would have had no space in which he, his family, and cattle could have existed with all these creatures living at the same time, particularly if tens of thousands of huge dinosaurs were alive when Noah lived prior to the flood.

18. An experiment done by Charles Munroe III shows that the submergence of an olive tree under water for more than three months kills the tree. On that basis, when a dove brought an olive twig with fresh leaves to Noah on the ark (Genesis 8:11), the whole world could not have been submerged under water during the flood. Otherwise, all olive trees would have been killed in six months of their submergence under the flood waters. Therefore, the flood must have been local in southern Mesopotamia with some land (say, 100 feet above water) present on which olive trees must have been growing and from which an olive tree with such a twig with fresh leaves could have been obtained by the dove (Collins 2017).

19. Wave action at high tide from a powerful category 5 hurricane with sustained winds of more than 156 mph can move an offshore barrier sandbar as much as 50 to 100 feet inland toward the continent, but such a major storm never moves sand for distances of thousands of miles across the United States, as creationists claim for the Tapeats, Coconino, and other sandstone deposits in the Grand Canyon or the calcite grains and fossils in the Redwall limestone. Therefore, producing such deposits by such winds and waves in Noah’s Flood has no scientific support. Noah’s ark could not have survived such wind power and large waves. Moreover, moving water cannot carry such large, suspended sediment loads for that distance (Collins 2015a; 2017).

20. The claim that the erosion surface that underlies the Cambrian Tapeats sandstone on top of the Precambrian basement rocks, which forms a major unconformity at the bottom of the Grand Canyon, was caused by a tsunami makes no scientific sense. A tsunami-created wave is caused by either a) a large earthquake following a sudden fault movement that shifts the position of the ocean floor; or b) a giant explosion of a volcano in an oceanic region, such as the explosion of Krakatoa—but never by flood waters of a large wave washing across the continent for thousands of miles. No such huge earthquake or explosion of a volcano is mentioned in the Bible, so postulating a tsunami to cause widespread rapid erosion across the world and at the bottom of the Grand Canyon at the beginning of Noah’s Flood is without biblical or scientific support (Collins 2017).

21. If the sedimentary rocks in the Grand Canyon were all deposited by Noah’s worldwide flood, then these rocks should all be deposited in less than one year under water and show continuous deposition from one formation to the next up the canyon walls without disruption. But that is not the case. For example, the Redwall limestone formation has ancient karst topography with caves and sinkholes, indicating that this formation was once lifted out of the water so that percolating rain water dissolved out cavities and tunnels in the limestone; erosion channels of the Temple Butte Formation, as much as 100 feet deep, cut the top of the Muav limestone, and networks of channels of the Surprise Canyon Formation, up to a half mile wide and 400 feet deep, cut the top of the Redwall limestone, indicating that these rocks were exposed at the Earth’s surface to river erosion (Hill et al. 2016). These structural land surface features would take much more than one year to be formed.

A Reasonable Possibility

Thomas H. Huxley (1825–1895) said the following: “The great tragedy of science—the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact.” Any one of the above twenty-one facts destroys the idea that Noah’s flood was a worldwide occurrence. Nevertheless, a local large flood in Mesopotamia in biblical times could have been possible (Collins 2009). Young-Earth creationists commonly point out that Jesus supported the existence of Noah’s flood (Luke 17:27; Matthew 24:38–39), but in the context of the time in which Jesus lived, the translation of the Hebrew word ertz would have been understood as “land” and not the whole world. In that sense, all the land that Noah could have normally seen would have been under water in that part of Mesopotamia and that would have been in effect his whole world. During large floods in Iraq (Mesopotamia), commonly abundant rain falling in the adjacent Zagros Mountains goes underground in solution tunnels in limestone beds and emerges as gushing water in springs in Iraq. These springs are likely the “fountains of the great deep” as described in Genesis 7:11 (Hill 2015).

References

·         Collins, L.G. 2006. Time to accumulate chloride ions in the world’s oceans. Creationism’s young Earth not supported. Reports of the National Center for Science Education 26(5): 16–24. Available online at http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/collins.pdf.
·         ———. 2009. Yes, Noah’s flood may have happened but not over the whole earth. Reports of the National Center for Science Education 29(5): 38–41. Available online at http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/Collins2.pdf.
·         ———. 2012. More geologic reasons Noah’s flood never happened. Reports of the National Center for Science Education 32(6): 1–11. Available online at http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/Collins3.pdf.
·         ———. 2015a. Can flood geology and catastrophic plate tectonics explain sedimentary rocks? Available online at http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/Collins5.pdf.
·         ———. 2015b. When was Grand Canyon carved—millions of years ago or thousands of years ago? How do we know? Reports of the National Center for Science Education 35(4): 2.1–2.8. Available online at http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/GrandCanyon.pdf.
·         ———. 2017. When was the Grand Canyon formed? 4,360 years ago during Noah’s flood? Or during millions of years by natural geologic processes. Power point presentation available online at http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/PwrPt1.pdf and http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/PwrPt2.pdf.
·         Hill, C. 2002. The Noachian flood: Universal or local? Perspectives in Science and Christian Faith 54(3): 170–183. Available online at [url=http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/Carol 1.pdf]http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/Carol%201.pdf[/url].
·         ———. 2015. A world view Approach to Science and Scripture (unpublished book).
·         Hill, C., G. Davidson, T. Helble, et al. (editors). 2016. The Grand Canyon—Monument to an Ancient Earth – Can Noah’s Flood Explain the Grand Canyon?Kregel Publications.
·         Hill, C., and S. Moshier. 2009. Flood geology and the Grand Canyon: A critique.Perspectives in Science and Christian Faith 61(2): 99–115. Available online at http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/Carol%202.pdf.
·         Nelson, S.A. 2012. Geology 212, petrology. Occurrence, Mineralogy, Texture, and Structures of Sedimentary Rocks. Available online at http://www.tulane.edu/~sanelson/eens212/sedrxintro.htm.

• Senter, P. 2011. The defeat of flood geology by flood geology. The ironic demonstration that there is no trace of the Genesis flood in the geologic record. Reports of the National Center for Science Education 31(3): 1–14. Available online at [url=http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/Flood geology.pdf]http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/Flood%20geology.pdf[/url].
  
  
  https://www.csicop.org/si/show/twenty-one_reasons_noahs_worldwide_flood_never_happened
  

red wolf wrote:

metilda wrote:

red wolf wrote:

metilda wrote:ako su svi ti spisi stariji od biblije  a govore o arci i potopu znači da je bilo više potopa, taman za objašnjenje topljenja leda nakon nekoliko manjih ledenih doba

Sumerani su imali prikaz sunčevog sustava s deset planeta  ( i kod nekih drugih drevnih naroda postoje slični prikazi sun. sustava ). Upravo taj jedan je uljez u našem sustavu. Orbita mu je eliptična i on je uzrok tom povjesnom događaju - ''Veliki potop". No svaki put kad prolazi kroz naš sustav, ne uzrokuje uvijek kataklizme. U točki najbliže Suncu bit će u nama još dalekoj budućnosti. No, od toga je važnije pitanje kad će ''Oni koji su sišli s neba" ( Annakin, Anunnakiji ) - stvoritelji modernog čovjeka ponovno se vratiti na naš planet.

je li astronomija dokazala postojanje tog desetog planeta?

Oduvijek sumnjaju. Upravo je jedan potencijalni pronađen i potraga za njim traje s pozornošću. Uostalom, postoji teza o planetu Phaeton-u koji se nalazio između Marsa i Jupitera, ali onda ga je nešto uništilo i od njega je ostao samo asteroidni pojas.

uza svu tehnologiju oni samo sumnjaju i postavljaju teze...

metilda wrote:
je li astronomija dokazala postojanje tog desetog planeta?

Bespredmetno je špekulirati o desetom planetu Sunčevog sustava nakon što je Plutonu kao svojevremeno devetom ukinut taj status 2006. godine.
Dakle, ukoliko bude otkriven neki novi planet, taj može biti smatran devetim, a ne desetim planetom. 
No, pretpostavljam da ne treba posebno objašnjavati kako su šanse za otkivanje novog planeta Sunčevog sustava praktički nepostojeće.

Sabina Spielrein wrote:

kic wrote:

Sabina Spielrein wrote:

kic wrote:
procitao si?

Misli na Gilgameša.

taj mit mi je uvijek bio fora, dva kralja se tukli na ulicama grada, i postali jarani, išli u provod skupa ali onaj divljak naje*e, te ovaj Gilgaboy pokuša naći besmrtnost ali umire-

Mene je dojmio, ta nemoć nastavka bivanja me utjeskobila

na dvanaestoj ploči postoje stihovi koji podsjećaju na učenje o besmrtnosti duše:

Ožalošćen, uspne se Gilgameš, uze svoju odeću
i prođe kroz sedam kapija.
Dođe do duboke vode
i zamoli Eu, mudrog boga dubine:
"Pošalji mi ovamo Enkiduovu senu!
Podzemlje ga čvrsto drži."
Otac dubine ču njegove reči
i reče silnome Nergalu, vladaru mrtvih:
"Otvori odmah rupu u zemlji"
Dovedi gore Enkiduov duh
da progovori svome bratu Gilgamešu."
Kad to ču silni Nergal,
otvori odmah rupu u zemlji
i dovede gore Enkiduovu senu.
Oni se prepoznaše
a ipak ostadoše jedan drugome daleko.


vidi se da je želja za besmrtnošću ili nastavku života poslije smrti prisutna otkad je čovjeka i uvijek nađe način kako će to postići..
Enkiduova sjena koja govori znak je da će se susresti sa gilgamešovom sjenom nakon njegove smrti..
čovjek naprosto ima iskonsku potrebu pobijediti smrt