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The Telegraph: Nadbiskup Gänswein vodi konzervativnu revoluciju protiv Pape Franje
by Hektorović Mon 9 Jan - 20:27
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11614445/Conservatives-wage-secret-plan-liberal-pontiff-stress-step-down.html
Conservatives wage 'secret plan' to put the liberal pontiff 'under so much stress he will step down'
[url=safari-reader://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=&authornamef=Stewart+Carr]Stewart Carr[/url]11:48 GMT, 9 January 2023
| Updated: 19:12 GMT, 9 January 2023
in the Vatican are said to be plotting to put under such pressure that he is forced to resign.
The move to oust the liberal-minded pontiff, 86, began in earnest just days after the death of his predecessor, Pope Emeritus on December 31.
Although Pope Francis has previously declared he would step down if his health deteriorates, it was deemed unlikely to happen while Benedict XVI was alive in order to prevent an unprecedented situation of three Popes living at the Vatican,
The speculation grows as the Pope met with Archbishop Georg Gänswein on Monday, the longtime secretary of Pope Benedict XVI and a key figure in his recent funeral. Gänswein has released an extraordinary memoir in which he casts Francis in a deeply unfavorable light.
The Vatican provided no details about the content of the private audience, other than to say that it happened.
Pope Francis (centre), 86, pictured presiding over the funeral of his predecessor Pope Benedict XVI last week, is facing a revolt among conservative cardinals
Pope Francis (left) greets the retired Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI (right) in the chapel of the Mater Ecclesiae monastery, inside the Vatican, in 2020
Italian newspaper La Stampa reported that a cardinal had told them the conservative faction is ready to move against the 'communist' Pope.
The cardinal was quoted as saying: 'The secret plan will be formulated on various axes and phases, but it will have one objective - to place the pontificate under such stress that Francis will have to resign.
'The opponents of Francis know that right now they are in a minority, that they will need time to both win a consensus and to weaken [him].'
The cardinal added that the campaign would hinge upon 'the progressive weakening of the Holy Father as well as his doctrinal choices, which will create a great deal of discontent which can be used against him.'
Formerly known as Cardinal Bergoglio, Pope Francis became pontiff in 2013 after the resignation of the arch-conservative Benedict.
His appointment signalled a definite change in the Catholic church, with his criticism of capitalism and open attitude toward homosexuality, abortion, communion for remarried divorcees and celibacy for priests.
La Stampa reports said some opponents will be open in their criticism of the pope, while others will operate 'in the shadows'.
Pope Francis, who succeeded Benedict in 2013, sat in a chair near the altar in front of the crowd of tens of thousands of mourners for the late Pope's funeral
As many as 100,000 mourners gathered in St Peter's Square last week, which was shrouded in the mist, for a sombre two-hour ceremony as Pope Benedict IVI was laid to rest
A 'conservative' group inside the Vatican is said to be plotting to oust Pope Francis (Pictured: cardinals from around the world at the funeral of Pope Benedict XVI)
Cardinal Georg Gänswein, who spent 19 years as personal secretary to Pope Benedict and has been nicknamed 'the George Clooney of the Holy See' because of his good looks, is a key figure in the faction against Francis.
Now that his main job tending to Benedict has come to an end following his death, questions have been raised about what Francis will do with Gänswein following this week's publication of his tell-all book, 'Nothing But the Truth: My Life Beside Pope Benedict XVI.'
Some Vatican watchers see the book as the first salvo in a new era of anti-Francis attacks from the conservative right, for whom Benedict remained a nostalgic point of reference in retirement. Benedict's death, and Gänswein's postmortem revelations, have removed the façade of a happy cohabitation of two popes.
In the text, Gänswein reveals previously unknown details of some of the biggest hiccups and bad blood that accrued during the last 10 years in which Benedict lived as a retired pope following his 2013 decision to retire, the first pope in six centuries to do so.
In one of the most explosive sections, Gänswein says he was 'shocked and speechless' when Francis essentially fired him from his day job as the head of the papal household in 2020 after a scandal over a book Benedict co-authored. Francis told Gänswein to stop coming to the office and to dedicate himself to caring for Benedict, essentially ending his job as the 'bridge' between the pontificates.
Printing previously secret letters between the two popes and relaying private conversations with both, Gänswein revealed that Francis even refused entreaties from Benedict to take him back on. Embittered, Gänswein described Francis as insincere, illogical and sarcastic in deciding his fate, and said Benedict even made fun of Francis when told of the decision.
'It seems as if Pope Francis doesn't trust me anymore and is making you my chaperone,' Gänswein quoted Benedict as saying.
Cardinal Georg Gänswein, who spent 19 years as personal secretary to Pope Benedict, and has been nicknamed 'the George Clooney of the Holy See' because of his good looks, is a key figure in the faction against Francis. Pictured: Gänswein and Pope Francis at the Vatican, February 4, 2017
Gänswein has released an extraordinary memoir in which he casts Francis in a deeply unfavorable light. Pictured: Pope Francis with Archbishop Georg Gaenswein in St. Peter's Square at the Vatican, May 25, 2016
Gänswein also wrote of his dismay that, years earlier, Francis had refused him the right to live in the palace apartment occupied by his predecessor. After a longer-than-usual refurbishment, Francis gave the flat instead to the Vatican foreign minister, forcing Gänswe into continue living in the monastery that Benedict called home.
Cardinal Gänswein also spoke to German press and blasted the pope's decision to limit the traditional Latin Mass, saying it had 'broken the heart' of his predecessor.
In his autobiography, Gänswein also recalled how he was unable to reach 'a climate of trust' with pope Francis and was 'shocked and speechless' when he lost his position in the papal household in 2020.
Other members of the traditionalist movement include cardinals Raymond Burke, an American, and Gerhard Ludwig Müller, who was a close ally of Benedict XVI.
As many as 100,000 mourners gathered in St Peter's Square for the late pope's funeral on January 4, with a host of royalty in attendance including King Philippe of Belgium and dowager Queen Sofia of Spain.
Francis, who arrived on a wheelchair and stood with the aid of a stick, did not mention Benedict by name in his homily until the final line. Referring to Jesus as the 'bridegroom' of the church, he said: 'Benedict, faithful friend of the bridegroom, may your joy be complete as you hear his voice, now and forever.'
Conservatives wage 'secret plan' to put the liberal pontiff 'under so much stress he will step down'
[url=safari-reader://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=&authornamef=Stewart+Carr]Stewart Carr[/url]11:48 GMT, 9 January 2023
| Updated: 19:12 GMT, 9 January 2023
in the Vatican are said to be plotting to put under such pressure that he is forced to resign.
The move to oust the liberal-minded pontiff, 86, began in earnest just days after the death of his predecessor, Pope Emeritus on December 31.
Although Pope Francis has previously declared he would step down if his health deteriorates, it was deemed unlikely to happen while Benedict XVI was alive in order to prevent an unprecedented situation of three Popes living at the Vatican,
The speculation grows as the Pope met with Archbishop Georg Gänswein on Monday, the longtime secretary of Pope Benedict XVI and a key figure in his recent funeral. Gänswein has released an extraordinary memoir in which he casts Francis in a deeply unfavorable light.
The Vatican provided no details about the content of the private audience, other than to say that it happened.
Pope Francis (centre), 86, pictured presiding over the funeral of his predecessor Pope Benedict XVI last week, is facing a revolt among conservative cardinals
Pope Francis (left) greets the retired Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI (right) in the chapel of the Mater Ecclesiae monastery, inside the Vatican, in 2020
Italian newspaper La Stampa reported that a cardinal had told them the conservative faction is ready to move against the 'communist' Pope.
The cardinal was quoted as saying: 'The secret plan will be formulated on various axes and phases, but it will have one objective - to place the pontificate under such stress that Francis will have to resign.
'The opponents of Francis know that right now they are in a minority, that they will need time to both win a consensus and to weaken [him].'
The cardinal added that the campaign would hinge upon 'the progressive weakening of the Holy Father as well as his doctrinal choices, which will create a great deal of discontent which can be used against him.'
Formerly known as Cardinal Bergoglio, Pope Francis became pontiff in 2013 after the resignation of the arch-conservative Benedict.
His appointment signalled a definite change in the Catholic church, with his criticism of capitalism and open attitude toward homosexuality, abortion, communion for remarried divorcees and celibacy for priests.
La Stampa reports said some opponents will be open in their criticism of the pope, while others will operate 'in the shadows'.
Pope Francis, who succeeded Benedict in 2013, sat in a chair near the altar in front of the crowd of tens of thousands of mourners for the late Pope's funeral
As many as 100,000 mourners gathered in St Peter's Square last week, which was shrouded in the mist, for a sombre two-hour ceremony as Pope Benedict IVI was laid to rest
A 'conservative' group inside the Vatican is said to be plotting to oust Pope Francis (Pictured: cardinals from around the world at the funeral of Pope Benedict XVI)
Cardinal Georg Gänswein, who spent 19 years as personal secretary to Pope Benedict and has been nicknamed 'the George Clooney of the Holy See' because of his good looks, is a key figure in the faction against Francis.
Now that his main job tending to Benedict has come to an end following his death, questions have been raised about what Francis will do with Gänswein following this week's publication of his tell-all book, 'Nothing But the Truth: My Life Beside Pope Benedict XVI.'
Some Vatican watchers see the book as the first salvo in a new era of anti-Francis attacks from the conservative right, for whom Benedict remained a nostalgic point of reference in retirement. Benedict's death, and Gänswein's postmortem revelations, have removed the façade of a happy cohabitation of two popes.
In the text, Gänswein reveals previously unknown details of some of the biggest hiccups and bad blood that accrued during the last 10 years in which Benedict lived as a retired pope following his 2013 decision to retire, the first pope in six centuries to do so.
In one of the most explosive sections, Gänswein says he was 'shocked and speechless' when Francis essentially fired him from his day job as the head of the papal household in 2020 after a scandal over a book Benedict co-authored. Francis told Gänswein to stop coming to the office and to dedicate himself to caring for Benedict, essentially ending his job as the 'bridge' between the pontificates.
Printing previously secret letters between the two popes and relaying private conversations with both, Gänswein revealed that Francis even refused entreaties from Benedict to take him back on. Embittered, Gänswein described Francis as insincere, illogical and sarcastic in deciding his fate, and said Benedict even made fun of Francis when told of the decision.
'It seems as if Pope Francis doesn't trust me anymore and is making you my chaperone,' Gänswein quoted Benedict as saying.
Cardinal Georg Gänswein, who spent 19 years as personal secretary to Pope Benedict, and has been nicknamed 'the George Clooney of the Holy See' because of his good looks, is a key figure in the faction against Francis. Pictured: Gänswein and Pope Francis at the Vatican, February 4, 2017
Gänswein has released an extraordinary memoir in which he casts Francis in a deeply unfavorable light. Pictured: Pope Francis with Archbishop Georg Gaenswein in St. Peter's Square at the Vatican, May 25, 2016
Gänswein also wrote of his dismay that, years earlier, Francis had refused him the right to live in the palace apartment occupied by his predecessor. After a longer-than-usual refurbishment, Francis gave the flat instead to the Vatican foreign minister, forcing Gänswe into continue living in the monastery that Benedict called home.
Cardinal Gänswein also spoke to German press and blasted the pope's decision to limit the traditional Latin Mass, saying it had 'broken the heart' of his predecessor.
In his autobiography, Gänswein also recalled how he was unable to reach 'a climate of trust' with pope Francis and was 'shocked and speechless' when he lost his position in the papal household in 2020.
Other members of the traditionalist movement include cardinals Raymond Burke, an American, and Gerhard Ludwig Müller, who was a close ally of Benedict XVI.
As many as 100,000 mourners gathered in St Peter's Square for the late pope's funeral on January 4, with a host of royalty in attendance including King Philippe of Belgium and dowager Queen Sofia of Spain.
Francis, who arrived on a wheelchair and stood with the aid of a stick, did not mention Benedict by name in his homily until the final line. Referring to Jesus as the 'bridegroom' of the church, he said: 'Benedict, faithful friend of the bridegroom, may your joy be complete as you hear his voice, now and forever.'
Hektorović- Posts : 26371
2018-04-10
Re: The Telegraph: Nadbiskup Gänswein vodi konzervativnu revoluciju protiv Pape Franje
by Hektorović Mon 9 Jan - 20:36
Peter Kwasniewski has translated some observations about Pope Benedict’s Requiem Mass as posted on the Caminante Wanderer Blog. pic.twitter.com/MsIroTLGh6
— Father V (@father_rmv) January 9, 2023
Hektorović- Posts : 26371
2018-04-10
Re: The Telegraph: Nadbiskup Gänswein vodi konzervativnu revoluciju protiv Pape Franje
by Šandor Winnetou Mon 9 Jan - 20:38
jedno jeste sigurno a to je da je papa Franjo protresao KC, što će iz toga izaći ne znam i ne želim nagađati no da će se sve uzmutiti hoće.
_________________
Šandor Winnetou-
Posts : 19651
2017-12-31
Re: The Telegraph: Nadbiskup Gänswein vodi konzervativnu revoluciju protiv Pape Franje
by Hektorović Mon 9 Jan - 21:52
Šandor Winnetou wrote:jedno jeste sigurno a to je da je papa Franjo protresao KC, što će iz toga izaći ne znam i ne želim nagađati no da će se sve uzmutiti hoće.
Konzervativci su iz poštovanja prema Benediktu čekali njegov odlazak, kako ga nebi doveli u situaciju crkvenog raskola i papinskog sukoba koju je pod svaku cijenu pokušavao izbjeći.
Sad kreću kokice. Skandal sa Rupnikom bio je prvi volej pošto se znalo kako Benedikt uskoro odlazi.
Liberali su istu stvar odradili Benediktu i natjerali ga u mirovinu
Hektorović- Posts : 26371
2018-04-10
Re: The Telegraph: Nadbiskup Gänswein vodi konzervativnu revoluciju protiv Pape Franje
by Šandor Winnetou Mon 9 Jan - 22:17
Papa Franjo gubi konce i vjerojatno je da će i on odstupiti a držim da evropski kardinali više neće ponoviti grešku pa staviti nekog južnoameričkog papu čiji je domet razmišljanja južnoameričko dvorište.Hektorović wrote:Šandor Winnetou wrote:jedno jeste sigurno a to je da je papa Franjo protresao KC, što će iz toga izaći ne znam i ne želim nagađati no da će se sve uzmutiti hoće.
Konzervativci su iz poštovanja prema Benediktu čekali njegov odlazak, kako ga nebi doveli u situaciju crkvenog raskola i papinskog sukoba koju je pod svaku cijenu pokušavao izbjeći.
Sad kreću kokice. Skandal sa Rupnikom bio je prvi volej pošto se znalo kako Benedikt uskoro odlazi.
Liberali su istu stvar odradili Benediktu i natjerali ga u mirovinu
_________________
Šandor Winnetou-
Posts : 19651
2017-12-31
Re: The Telegraph: Nadbiskup Gänswein vodi konzervativnu revoluciju protiv Pape Franje
by Guest Mon 9 Jan - 22:45
Šandor Winnetou wrote:Papa Franjo gubi konce i vjerojatno je da će i on odstupiti a držim da evropski kardinali više neće ponoviti grešku pa staviti nekog južnoameričkog papu čiji je domet razmišljanja južnoameričko dvorište.Hektorović wrote:Šandor Winnetou wrote:jedno jeste sigurno a to je da je papa Franjo protresao KC, što će iz toga izaći ne znam i ne želim nagađati no da će se sve uzmutiti hoće.
Konzervativci su iz poštovanja prema Benediktu čekali njegov odlazak, kako ga nebi doveli u situaciju crkvenog raskola i papinskog sukoba koju je pod svaku cijenu pokušavao izbjeći.
Sad kreću kokice. Skandal sa Rupnikom bio je prvi volej pošto se znalo kako Benedikt uskoro odlazi.
Liberali su istu stvar odradili Benediktu i natjerali ga u mirovinu
Prije samog poslljednjeg čina izbora pape od strane konklave 2013. godine, špekuliralo se kako će novi papa sigurno biti Talijan i neki od spominjanih kandidata su već krenuli sa nekom vrstom samopromocije.
No, svi su zaboravili da je tada tek budući papa Franjo također Talijan.
Ne samo da je Argentinac talijanskog podrijetla rođen od roditelja talijanskih doseljenika nego ima i talijansko uz argentinsko državljanstvo.
Dakle, konklava je doslovce izravno poručila Europi gdje je kršćanstvo sve manje utjecajno kako je argentinski Talijan zapravo bolji kandidat za papu od svih talijanskih kardinala te da je vrijeme da Europa preda svoje neformalno pravo prvenstva pri izboru pape drugim kontinentima, za sad Južnoj Americi, ali očito sve više i Africi.
Ovaj papa sasvim sigurno neće odstupiti, jednostavno je previše tvrdoglav za taj čin, a meni je osobno nezamisliv scenarij prema kojem bi ga bilo tko natjerao na mirovinu.
Usput rečeno, sve sam većeg uvjerenja kako će slijedeći papa biti Afrikanac sa dominacijom melanina u svojoj koži, a uopće ne sumnjam da će takav scenarij stanoviti fantasti iskoristiti da predstave svoje teorije zavjere o ustupku Crkve liberalnim krugovima koji takav izbor zazivaju već neko vrijeme iz čisto ideoloških odnosno političkih razloga, kao što su to već nekoliko desetljeća zazivali pri izborima za američke predsjednike.
Guest- Guest
Re: The Telegraph: Nadbiskup Gänswein vodi konzervativnu revoluciju protiv Pape Franje
by Šandor Winnetou Mon 9 Jan - 23:05
Pa i za zadnje konklave priče su bile da bi papa mogao biti afrikanac no prevagnulo je na sadašnjeg papu Franju. Ne kažem da je to što pišeš nemoguće no s ovim papom je najviše pogođena evropa pa stoga mislim da će evropski kardinali upeti iz petnih žila (bez obzira na razlike) da pontifikat ne ode u opet neku egzotičnu zemlju iz koje bi papa opet razmišljao maximalno o svom dvorištu ne vidjevši da je trenutno evropi potrebno najviše pažnje i vatrogasnih mjera.Speare Shaker wrote:Šandor Winnetou wrote:Papa Franjo gubi konce i vjerojatno je da će i on odstupiti a držim da evropski kardinali više neće ponoviti grešku pa staviti nekog južnoameričkog papu čiji je domet razmišljanja južnoameričko dvorište.Hektorović wrote:Šandor Winnetou wrote:jedno jeste sigurno a to je da je papa Franjo protresao KC, što će iz toga izaći ne znam i ne želim nagađati no da će se sve uzmutiti hoće.
Konzervativci su iz poštovanja prema Benediktu čekali njegov odlazak, kako ga nebi doveli u situaciju crkvenog raskola i papinskog sukoba koju je pod svaku cijenu pokušavao izbjeći.
Sad kreću kokice. Skandal sa Rupnikom bio je prvi volej pošto se znalo kako Benedikt uskoro odlazi.
Liberali su istu stvar odradili Benediktu i natjerali ga u mirovinu
Prije samog poslljednjeg čina izbora pape od strane konklave 2013. godine, špekuliralo se kako će novi papa sigurno biti Talijan i neki od spominjanih kandidata su već krenuli sa nekom vrstom samopromocije.
No, svi su zaboravili da je tada tek budući papa Franjo također Talijan.
Ne samo da je Argentinac talijanskog podrijetla rođen od roditelja talijanskih doseljenika nego ima i talijansko uz argentinsko državljanstvo.
Dakle, konklava je doslovce izravno poručila Europi gdje je kršćanstvo sve manje utjecajno kako je argentinski Talijan zapravo bolji kandidat za papu od svih talijanskih kardinala te da je vrijeme da Europa preda svoje neformalno pravo prvenstva pri izboru pape drugim kontinentima, za sad Južnoj Americi, ali očito sve više i Africi.
Ovaj papa sasvim sigurno neće odstupiti, jednostavno je previše tvrdoglav za taj čin, a meni je osobno nezamisliv scenarij prema kojem bi ga bilo tko natjerao na mirovinu.
Usput rečeno, sve sam većeg uvjerenja kako će slijedeći papa biti Afrikanac sa dominacijom melanina u svojoj koži, a uopće ne sumnjam da će takav scenarij stanoviti fantasti iskoristiti da predstave svoje teorije zavjere o ustupku Crkve liberalnim krugovima koji takav izbor zazivaju već neko vrijeme iz čisto ideoloških odnosno političkih razloga, kao što su to već nekoliko desetljeća zazivali pri izborima za američke predsjednike.
_________________
Šandor Winnetou-
Posts : 19651
2017-12-31
Re: The Telegraph: Nadbiskup Gänswein vodi konzervativnu revoluciju protiv Pape Franje
by niels Mon 9 Jan - 23:38
Imao sam osjećaj na zadnjim konklavama da će Papa gotovo sigurno doći iz Južne Amerike, ali moj prvi izbor je bio jedan brazilski kandidat, pa onda Bergoglio (inače, 2005 je vodio mrtvu trku s Ratzingerom i sam odustao na konklavama; mislio sam da ne želi biti Papa i da je jednostavno prestar).
Južna Amerika je uvelike katolički kontinent, ali vodi se ogorčena bitka s agresivnijim protestantskim grupama, npr. pentakostalcima. Zbog demografije i ostalog, RKC je definitivno napravila zaokret od Europe prema teološki nedotjeranijim područjima, ali broj duša u Crkvi se mjeri :)
I ja mislim da će jedan od dva slijedeća Sv. Oca biti Afrikanac, ali to je manje bitno.
Meni je bitno da se Crkva nemilosrdno obračuna s neprimjerenim praksama homoseksualizma, pedofilije, pohlepe, itd.
Istovremeno, Crkva ne smije podilaziti moralnom relativizmu, već imati jasan stav i biti svjetionik Vjere. Činjenica jest da generacija koja dolazi, i svećenika i vjernika jest zapravo osjetno konzervativnija od svojih roditelja, dobrim dijelom iz revolta prema ne baš ugodnim vijestima iz Vatikana.
Južna Amerika je uvelike katolički kontinent, ali vodi se ogorčena bitka s agresivnijim protestantskim grupama, npr. pentakostalcima. Zbog demografije i ostalog, RKC je definitivno napravila zaokret od Europe prema teološki nedotjeranijim područjima, ali broj duša u Crkvi se mjeri :)
I ja mislim da će jedan od dva slijedeća Sv. Oca biti Afrikanac, ali to je manje bitno.
Meni je bitno da se Crkva nemilosrdno obračuna s neprimjerenim praksama homoseksualizma, pedofilije, pohlepe, itd.
Istovremeno, Crkva ne smije podilaziti moralnom relativizmu, već imati jasan stav i biti svjetionik Vjere. Činjenica jest da generacija koja dolazi, i svećenika i vjernika jest zapravo osjetno konzervativnija od svojih roditelja, dobrim dijelom iz revolta prema ne baš ugodnim vijestima iz Vatikana.
niels-
Posts : 4784
2021-04-26
Age : 84
Re: The Telegraph: Nadbiskup Gänswein vodi konzervativnu revoluciju protiv Pape Franje
by catabbath Tue 10 Jan - 11:04
'The secret plan will be formulated
Super su mi ti tajni planovi koji su po svim medijima.
_________________
catabbath-
Posts : 12387
2015-08-22
Re: The Telegraph: Nadbiskup Gänswein vodi konzervativnu revoluciju protiv Pape Franje
by Hektorović Tue 10 Jan - 11:47
Speare Shaker wrote:Ovaj papa sasvim sigurno neće odstupiti, jednostavno je previše tvrdoglav za taj čin, a meni je osobno nezamisliv scenarij prema kojem bi ga bilo tko natjerao na mirovinu.
Upravo to, Benedikt iako radišan i konzervativan bio je kao čovjek mekan i pomirljiv. Franjo jest liberalan no istovremeno je i tipično Argentinski prgav, osvetoljubiv i tvrdoglav.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-trouble-with-francis/
Hektorović- Posts : 26371
2018-04-10
Re: The Telegraph: Nadbiskup Gänswein vodi konzervativnu revoluciju protiv Pape Franje
by Hektorović Tue 10 Jan - 11:54
Priča o "rotweileru" Ratzingeru došla je iz njegove uloge kao gromobrana IPII, kojem je trebao jedan vrhunski tehološki potkovan no potpuno lojalan izvršioc na čelu kongregacije za nauk vjere.
Hektorović- Posts : 26371
2018-04-10
Re: The Telegraph: Nadbiskup Gänswein vodi konzervativnu revoluciju protiv Pape Franje
by Hektorović Tue 10 Jan - 12:11
Konklava 2005 bila je sve do zadnjeg kruga utrka između Ratzingera i Bergogila
Liberali i nakon gubitka konklave nisu odustali te su odmah krenuli u napad, što je na kraju dovelo i do ostavke blagog Benedikta...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/02/18/pope-benedict-catholic-conservatives/1928889/
Liberali i nakon gubitka konklave nisu odustali te su odmah krenuli u napad, što je na kraju dovelo i do ostavke blagog Benedikta...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/02/18/pope-benedict-catholic-conservatives/1928889/
Hektorović- Posts : 26371
2018-04-10
Re: The Telegraph: Nadbiskup Gänswein vodi konzervativnu revoluciju protiv Pape Franje
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