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Ipak izglasana zabrana benzinaca i dizelaša

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Ipak izglasana zabrana benzinaca i dizelaša - Page 22 Empty Re: Ipak izglasana zabrana benzinaca i dizelaša

Post by marcellus 20/2/2023, 09:39

dijagram wrote:
veber wrote:
dijagram wrote:
veber wrote:malo sam surfal.
ima tu konja pod haubom.
ima i momenta.
i ubrzanja
i potrošnje-lažu
i automatkih getriba-lažu
sve u svemu, jebo strujića. kćerin scenic odere bilo koji marcov auto s tri vreće cementa.
pa dobro, kakav je to autic, nije valjda na tri kotaca

stavi sliku da vidimo
ček kaj oš od kćeri fotke ili moje?
ma marcelov autic koji kritizirate kako nista ne valja

joj znaš koje aute imam. Starog focusa, mx 5 nc, i električnog springa.

spring je za okokuće

mx 5 je za zajebanciju

focus je rezerva, ako ustrebam negdje ić a autić je kod žene ili obratno

za putovat je ryan air

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Post by veber 20/2/2023, 10:10

marcellus wrote:
veber wrote:malo me muči ušteda od 400€
na gorivu
kaj vozi helikopter?
komercijalni ne gutaju 100l/h

od kuda ušteda 400€/mj.
koliko lik radi kilometara?
ili kaj vozi?

radim 3-4.000 km mjesečno po gradu.
3-4kkm
pa više ti se isplati plin.
ako si ga kupio u lapo keš lapo lizing. onda si u lila zoni.

malo mi je nevjerovatno za hr 3k km
i još tri auta.
moja mala ide na dva faksa pa su neki put predavanja u zaboku, a neki put u varaždinu.
ne natuče 1000km/mj

kaj ti ostaviš auto na valjcima i odeš spat?

(ako odem pogledati neku predstavu ili odem kupiti čamčić, skoknem do tehničkog muzeja s odlaskom na posao nalupam 1500)
da odem za hrvatsku i vratim se 2500.
ljudi koji žive 40km od firme ne rade više od 2500mj.

ili sereš ili voziš okolo.

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Post by marcellus 20/2/2023, 10:51

veber wrote:
marcellus wrote:
veber wrote:malo me muči ušteda od 400€
na gorivu
kaj vozi helikopter?
komercijalni ne gutaju 100l/h

od kuda ušteda 400€/mj.
koliko lik radi kilometara?
ili kaj vozi?

radim 3-4.000 km mjesečno po gradu.
3-4kkm
pa više ti se isplati plin.
ako si ga kupio u lapo keš lapo lizing. onda si u lila zoni.

malo mi je nevjerovatno za hr 3k km
i još tri auta.
moja mala ide na dva faksa pa su neki put predavanja u zaboku, a neki put u varaždinu.
ne natuče 1000km/mj

kaj ti ostaviš auto na valjcima i odeš spat?

(ako odem pogledati neku predstavu ili odem kupiti čamčić, skoknem do tehničkog muzeja s odlaskom na posao nalupam 1500)
da odem za hrvatsku i vratim se 2500.
ljudi koji žive 40km od firme ne rade više od 2500mj.

ili sereš ili voziš okolo.

kak ti je nevjerojatno? Stanujem 25 km od svog i ženinog posla. Ako vozim sebe i nju onda dodatnih 20 od nje do mene i nazad. Dućan, birtija, slobodne aktivnosti dece u gorici i zagrebu, itd etc. Do posla prođem po obilaznici ili auto cesti zavisi na koju stranu idem, treba mi ukupno pol sata svaki smjer.

100 km dnevno.

Plin mi se ne isplati, jer ga nema smisla stavljat u mali gradski auto, veliki auto je skup i ne treba mi.

i skuplji je od struje nemjerljivo

i instalacija je skupa

i uništava motor

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Post by marcellus 20/2/2023, 10:52

a mi smo 20 tisuća godišnje tukli i kad smo živeli u zagrebu, s onim autom koji je već bil za dnevne poslove + mazda

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Post by marcellus 20/2/2023, 10:52

sad bu to 35 ili više + mazda

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Post by RayMabus 20/2/2023, 13:00

Njemački proizvođači automobila Mercedes-Benz i Volkswagen pozvali su njemačku vladu da učini više kako bi povećala broj punionica električnih vozila.
“Kako bismo ubrzali prelazak na električna vozila, moramo biti sigurni da je infrastruktura punionica u izgradnji”, izjavio je izvršni direktor Mercedes-Benza Ola Kallenius za njemački list Bild am Sonntag.
Izvršni direktor Volkswagena Oliver Blume složio se da je potrebno veće ubrzanje te da je izgradnja punionica “zajednički zadatak gospodarstva, savezne vlade i općina”.
Njemačka vlada je jesenas odobrila plan potrošnje 6,3 milijardi eura za naglo ubrzanje gradnje punionica za električna vozila diljem zemlje, koji uključuje ubrzavanje izdavanja građevinskih dozvola.
-
https://www.poslovni.hr/europska-unija/mercedes-i-volkswagen-poslali-poruku-njemackoj-vladu-4377284
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Post by veber 20/2/2023, 13:48

marcellus wrote:

i uništava motor
priče "stručnjaka" koliko mi je imao genesis 400-500?
koliko je imao S? 250
sonata? 500
sonata 2? 300
astra? 800
pola beneluxa vozi na plin.

po čemu plin uništava motor?
tvoje stručno izlaganje.

problem kod plina je manja kalorijska vrijednost koja se kompenzira paljenjem motora na benzin i kada dosegne temp kreće plin.
hundai je to riješio grijačima kao kod dizela.

plin je daljeko bolji od bilo kojeg drugog goriva za motor.
većina buseva u zagrebu ide na plin, a imaju dizelske motore.

pišeš pizdarije i ostaneš živ.
ja bi ugradio plin na "moj" auto da nije od firme.
ne bi imao snagu niti moment kao s benzinom, ali bi bio na 90%

kao što piše shake slijedeće gorivo je H2

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Post by marcellus 20/2/2023, 15:43

veber wrote:
kao što piše shake slijedeće gorivo je H2

aha, EU će sagradit mrežu punionica i Mercedes počet radit aute na H2 zato jer se vama dvojici ne sviđa struja.

sigurno.

Inače Merc je isto eksperimentirao s pogonom na H2 ali su brzo odustali kad su skužili koji su problemi

https://electrek.co/2020/04/22/daimler-ends-hydrogen-car-development-because-its-too-costly/

Daimler prekida razvoj automobila na vodik jer je preskup

Daimlerov Mercedes-Benz ubija svoj program razvoja osobnih automobila s pogonom na vodikove gorive ćelije. Tvrtka radi na vozilima s gorivnim ćelijama više od 30 godina — jureći san o automobilu s nultim emisijama koji ima dug domet vožnje, trominutna punjenja i ispušta samo vodenu paru. Na kraju je tvrtka priznala da je izgradnja automobila na vodik preskupa, otprilike dvostruko skuplja od ekvivalentnog baterijsko-električnog vozila.

Mercedes-Benz će prekinuti proizvodnju GLC F-Cell, svog jedinog trenutnog modela s gorivnim ćelijama. GLC-F-Cell razvijen je 2013. godine u suradnji s Fordom i Nissanom.

Ideja suradnje bila je pokrenuti proizvodnju automobila na gorive ćelije i vodikove infrastrukture. Mercedes-Benz je bio jedini proizvođač automobila od tri partnera koji je proizvodio vozilo u programu.

Mercedes-Benz je napravio samo nekoliko stotina primjeraka GLC F-Cell jer su troškovi proizvodnje modela bili jako visoki. Automobil je korišten za poslovne promidžbe, ali nikada nije ponuđen na prodaju javnosti.


Daimlerov šef istraživanja Markus Schäfer u siječnju je rekao:

Gorivne ćelije rade odlično. To je samo pitanje troškova, a sve je u skaliranju. Trebamo volumen.

Automotive News danas izvještava:

[Automobili na vodikove gorive ćelije] najmanje su dvostruko skuplji za izradu od ekvivalentnog automobila na baterije u proizvodnji. Kao rezultat toga, prodajne cijene ne odražavaju troškove.

Drugi proizvođači automobila odustaju od automobila na vodik. U studenom je Honda - dugogodišnji zagovornik automobila s vodikovim pogonom - rekla da će staviti svoj program gorivih ćelija na čekanje. Volkswagen je prošlog mjeseca objavio svoj stav o vodiku, dajući ovu grafiku:

Ipak izglasana zabrana benzinaca i dizelaša - Page 22 Vw-h2

VW zaključuje:

Sve govori u korist baterije, a praktički ništa ne govori u korist vodika.

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Post by marcellus 20/2/2023, 15:50

Drugim riječima od pogona na vodik su odustali doslovce svi koji su ikad s njim eksperimentirali - a to je veći dio auto industrije.

VW-ov graf jasno govori zašto: Učinkovitost takvog pogona je apsolutno nikakva, 3/4 uložene energije se izgubi na proizvodnji, transportu, skladištenju i pretakanju vodika i njegovoj pretvorbi natrag u električnu energiju.

Dakle nije ekološki nimalo.

Usto, kao što ja oduvijek tvrdim, a to vam potvrđuju i svi u auto industriji, takav auto je NEMOGUĆE napraviti dovoljno jeftino da bi bio dostupan masama.

Plus, infrastruktura ne postoji.

Plus, vodik je puno skuplji od struje za pogon automobila.

I može samo postati još skuplji kad bi se prešlo na njega, jer bi falilo kapaciteta za preradu.

Voziti se na vodik je skuplje od vožnje na bilo što drugo zbog visoke cijene vodika, ekološki manje učinkovito jer se većina energije gubi putem, automobili na vodik duplo skuplji od svih drugih u proizvodnji, a gradnja infrastrukture bi bila višestruko skuplja od mreže električnih punionica, za automobile koji ne postoje, koje nitko ne proizvodi, i koje nitko ne želi kupiti ionako i da postoji infrastruktura jer ne nose nikakvu prednost pred bilo kojim drugima.

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Post by marcellus 20/2/2023, 16:43

Već i sam podatak o učinkovitosti govori da vodik mora biti bar 4 puta skuplji od struje za istu kilometražu.

Jer od 4 proizvedena kwh 3 se kod pogona na vodik izgube putem u preradi i transportu i konverziji, a 1 se iskorisit za pomicanje auta i savladavanje mehaničkih i aerodinamčkih otpora.

Kod električara je obratno. 3 se iskoriste.

A onda transport vodika je puno skuplji nego transport struje, punionice moraju biti puno skuplje (u biti el. punionica je utičnica), trebaju ljudsku radnu snagu..

jedina prednost vodika je da bi, teoretski, punjenje bilo dosta brže.

kad bi punionice postojale.

Ali ne postoje, nitko ih ne gradi, i nitko ih ne kani graditi. One malobrojne se zatvaraju, jer se nije dogodio očekivani prodor auta na vodik. A s dolaskom automobila na struju, vodik je postao posve beskoristan i suvišan kao alternativni pogon. S njim se eksperimentiralo prije proboja električnih auta, kao alternativom, no u usporedbi sa strujom, gubi na svim poljima.

automobili su skuplji, gorivo je skuplje, iskoristivost energije lošija, infrastrukture nema. I ništa ne govori da bi se išta od toga moglo promijeniti igdje u doglednoj budućnosti.

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Post by veber 20/2/2023, 17:47

ja prelazim iz daimlera u firmu koja je isjključivo strujna.
eto. desi se da trebaju strojara..
ne vjeruju u baterije.
mene libo kiki dok me plaćaju.
znam da ne bum kupio baterrijanca.
niti brod ima šanse.
da ne tipkam o kući koju mislim napraviti.

prvo i osnovno su agregati.
isti trebaju naftu kako bi imao struju.
naravno da baterijski sustav neće biti litijski već olovni.
isto tako ću prijeći na diesel na kaiću.

u rezervi ću imati plinske lampe i kuhalo.

baterije su nepouzdane, a ako mi ekipa ne isporuči naftu, opet sam u kurtzu.

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Post by Guest 20/2/2023, 18:13

marcellus wrote:

Inače Merc je isto eksperimentirao s pogonom na H2 ali su brzo odustali kad su skužili koji su problemi

https://electrek.co/2020/04/22/daimler-ends-hydrogen-car-development-because-its-too-costly/

[size=36]Are Hydrogen-Powered Vehicles the Future of Clean Energy?[/size]
By Helen LinLast Updated October 19, 2022

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[url=https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?text=Are Hydrogen-Powered Vehicles the Future of Clean energy%3f&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reference.com%2Fscience-technology%2Fhydrogen-powered-vehicles-clean-energy][/url]
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Ipak izglasana zabrana benzinaca i dizelaša - Page 22 3d1eca2252e9455d215974f54a18c8d0Photo Courtesy: onurdongel/iStock
While automobiles are undoubtedly one of the greatest inventions in modern history, their reliance on gasoline has become a global issue. The mass burning of fossil fuels worldwide has struck a blow to our environment, leaving science scrambling for alternative power sources. 

While hybrids and electric cars are a great step in the right direction, science may have an even better solution in the form of hydrogen-powered fuel cells. Join us for a look at hydrogen-powered vehicles, what they are and how they work. 

What Are Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles (FCEVs)? 

[size]
While today’s hybrid and electric vehicles are better than traditional gas-guzzling vehicles, they still have drawbacks. For one, they rely on electric batteries, which require periodic charging. Fuel cell electric vehicles or FCEVs may offer a quicker, cleaner path to the future. 
While FCEVs are also powered by electricity, it’s produced by an onboard hydrogen fuel cell rather than a rechargeable battery. Whereas many of today’s electric cars have to be plugged in, the typical FCEV can be refueled in just a few minutes, like a traditional gas-powered car. 
The difference is that, instead of fossil fuels, an FCEV’s tank is filled with pure hydrogen gas. Through the magic of [url=https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/fuel-cells#:~:text=A fuel cell consists,heat. Learn more about%3A]chemistry[/url], the fuel cell can convert the hydrogen to electricity, which in turn powers the vehicle. 
[/size]

Why Are FCEVs Cleaner Than Gas-Powered Vehicles?

[size]
According to the U.S. Department of Energy, [url=https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/hydrogen_benefits.html#:~:text=About half of,and warm air.]about half[/url] the people in the United States currently live in an environment where the air pollution level is high enough to produce negative health effects. Not only does this have huge implications for public health, but also the environment. 
Ipak izglasana zabrana benzinaca i dizelaša - Page 22 9599c92e9fa2d6d5e714fd8db295c299Engine in a Toyota Mirai, the first mass-produced fuell cell car in the world. Photo Courtesy: Tramino/iStock
Unfortunately, these statistics are not surprising considering the amount of fossil fuel emissions constantly being released into the air by gas-powered vehicles. Regardless, many people have long felt they had no choice but to continue using gasoline as the trade-off for reliable transportation. 
One of the biggest potential strengths of FCEVs is that they can virtually eliminate these harmful tailpipe emissions. Rather than releasing carbon dioxide emissions, there are already FCEVs on the road today that emit nothing more than warm air and water. If used on a global scale, such FCEVs could have a massive impact, cutting down on everything from smog to climate change.
[/size]

The Economic Benefits of FCEVs

[size]
Aside from the harmful environmental effects of gasoline reliance, one of the other major drawbacks of fossil fuel has always been that it’s [url=https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/distribution-fossil-fuels/#:~:text=Other resources%2C like fossil fuels,distributed evenly around the Earth.]nonrenewable[/url]. In other words, there’s only so much of it we can tap into before we use it all up completely. Then, of course, there’s the inconvenient reality that you can’t find fossil fuels just anywhere. 

Although the United States has one of the biggest oil and natural gas reserves in the world, the U.S. still regularly uses [url=https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/distribution-fossil-fuels/#:~:text=Oil and natural,Arabia%2C and Mexico.]more oil[/url] than it produces. This has historically led to dependence on foreign oil, which has tricky political and economic implications.  
So how does hydrogen stack up? It just so happens to be the most abundant element on Earth and can be produced domestically. According to the [url=https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/hydrogen_benefits.html#:~:text=When used to power highly efficient fuel cell electric vehicles%2C hydrogen holds the promise of helping strengthen national energy security%2C conserve fuel%2C and diversify our transportation energy options for a more resilient system.]Department of Energy[/url], “When used to power highly efficient fuel cell electric vehicles, hydrogen holds the promise of helping strengthen national energy security, conserve fuel, and diversify our transportation energy options for a more resilient system.”
Ipak izglasana zabrana benzinaca i dizelaša - Page 22 E8d76f82da227c57ff0e86c04e8bb452Refueling the hydrogen to the Toyota Mirai car on the hydrogen filling station. Photo Courtesy: Tramino/iStock
[/size]

Availability and Range of Hydrogen-Powered Cars

[size]
While it’s already possible to purchase a hydrogen-powered car, it may not be the best idea unless you live in one of the few states in the U.S. that currently have hydrogen fueling stations. Most of these initial stations are located in California — a fact that has presented a roadblock in generating interest in FCEVs on a national scale. After all, what’s the point of buying a new vehicle if you don’t have access to the fuel you need to power it?  
But that hasn’t stopped several major auto manufacturers from developing their own FCEVs, hoping that they’ll become more widespread in the future. BMW, Toyota and Hyundai are just a few auto companies worldwide that have already ventured into the hydrogen-powered car space. 
As far as fuel economy, some FCEVs already enjoy the equivalent of up to 70 miles per gallon on a single tank and offer an impressive mileage range. According to some auto manufacturers, the future is looking even brighter, as there are hydrogen cars in development designed to get up to 500 miles on a single tank. 
Ipak izglasana zabrana benzinaca i dizelaša - Page 22 C8f06c37aae589a296a44290e2f563d9Photo Courtesy: Tramino/iStock
[/size]

The Challenges of Hydrogen-Powered Vehicles

[size]
At this point, you may be wondering, if trading in fossil fuels for hydrogen is such a great idea, why haven’t we done it yet? Unfortunately, the leap to hydrogen fuel isn’t going to be an overnight solution. There are still several key challenges that science is attempting to overcome, one of which revolves around producing hydrogen fuel on a mass scale. 
One drawback of hydrogen is that, despite its abundance, it doesn’t occur naturally except as part of a compound. That means that it’s always attached to some other element in its natural state. Water, for instance, is a combination of hydrogen and oxygen (H2O). To use the hydrogen in a barrel of water for fuel, we’d first have to separate it from all the oxygen in the barrel. 
Ironically, some of the most obvious ways to generate the electricity needed to separate the hydrogen currently involve using coal or natural gas. In other words, creating clean hydrogen fuel can end up producing just as much pollution as it’s designed to eliminate. 
That said, scientists are hopeful that we’ll someday cut fossil fuels out of the transportation equation entirely. The hope is that hydrogen production will ultimately rely on electricity generated by wind, solar, biomass and hydro-power.[/size]
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Post by Guest 20/2/2023, 18:15

škutor wrote:
crvenkasti wrote:

Energije ima koliko hoćeš, i može biti besplatna za sve.

samo to je problem

Nije, zato jer ne postoji tako nešto kao što je besplatna energija.


Last edited by Speare Shaker on 20/2/2023, 18:22; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Guest 20/2/2023, 18:22

Speare Shaker wrote:
škutor wrote:
crvenkasti wrote:

Energije ima koliko hoćeš, i može biti besplatna za sve.

samo to je problem

Nije, zato jer ne postoji tako nešto kao što je besplatna enerija.

Naime, svojevremeno se puno govorilo o tzv. vakuumskoj energiji, pozadinskoj energiji cijelog svemira, kao o besplatnom izvoru.
i ona nam jeste na slobodnom raspolaganju, nitko nam ne bi mogao ograničiti eksploataciji te energije, samo je problem u tome što bi njena eksploatacija zahtjevala određenu tehnologiju doumljavanje koje, zatim izgradnja, zatim održavanje itd. košta kao svetog Petra kajgana.
Da ne spominjem distributivni sustav koji bi košta još i više.
Dakle, tvoje i masturbiranje crvljivkastog na narativ o podmuklom kapitalizmu koji stalno gleda kako će vas obične male ljude nekako iskoristiti i kako bi bilo najbolje da ga se ukine i zamijeni nekom vrstom socijalizma s ljudskim likom je u najmanju ruku gadljivo.
Posebno tvoje jer neprestano blebećeš o zlu socijalizma, a ovdje kroz jednu od temeljnih mantri tog društvenog sustava koja prividno zagovara brigu o običnom malom čovjeku neprestano izrabljivanog od zlog kapitalizma zapravo zagovaraš ono protiv čega se formalno izjašnjavaš.
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Post by Guest 20/2/2023, 18:26

Speare Shaker wrote:
marcellus wrote:

Inače Merc je isto eksperimentirao s pogonom na H2 ali su brzo odustali kad su skužili koji su problemi

https://electrek.co/2020/04/22/daimler-ends-hydrogen-car-development-because-its-too-costly/

[size=36]Are Hydrogen-Powered Vehicles the Future of Clean Energy?[/size]
By Helen LinLast Updated October 19, 2022

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Ipak izglasana zabrana benzinaca i dizelaša - Page 22 3d1eca2252e9455d215974f54a18c8d0Photo Courtesy: onurdongel/iStock
While automobiles are undoubtedly one of the greatest inventions in modern history, their reliance on gasoline has become a global issue. The mass burning of fossil fuels worldwide has struck a blow to our environment, leaving science scrambling for alternative power sources. 

While hybrids and electric cars are a great step in the right direction, science may have an even better solution in the form of hydrogen-powered fuel cells. Join us for a look at hydrogen-powered vehicles, what they are and how they work. 

What Are Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles (FCEVs)? 


While today’s hybrid and electric vehicles are better than traditional gas-guzzling vehicles, they still have drawbacks. For one, they rely on electric batteries, which require periodic charging. Fuel cell electric vehicles or FCEVs may offer a quicker, cleaner path to the future. 
While FCEVs are also powered by electricity, it’s produced by an onboard hydrogen fuel cell rather than a rechargeable battery. Whereas many of today’s electric cars have to be plugged in, the typical FCEV can be refueled in just a few minutes, like a traditional gas-powered car. 
The difference is that, instead of fossil fuels, an FCEV’s tank is filled with pure hydrogen gas. Through the magic of [url=https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/fuel-cells#:~:text=A fuel cell consists,heat. Learn more about%3A]chemistry[/url], the fuel cell can convert the hydrogen to electricity, which in turn powers the vehicle. 

Why Are FCEVs Cleaner Than Gas-Powered Vehicles?


According to the U.S. Department of Energy, [url=https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/hydrogen_benefits.html#:~:text=About half of,and warm air.]about half[/url] the people in the United States currently live in an environment where the air pollution level is high enough to produce negative health effects. Not only does this have huge implications for public health, but also the environment. 
Ipak izglasana zabrana benzinaca i dizelaša - Page 22 9599c92e9fa2d6d5e714fd8db295c299Engine in a Toyota Mirai, the first mass-produced fuell cell car in the world. Photo Courtesy: Tramino/iStock
Unfortunately, these statistics are not surprising considering the amount of fossil fuel emissions constantly being released into the air by gas-powered vehicles. Regardless, many people have long felt they had no choice but to continue using gasoline as the trade-off for reliable transportation. 
One of the biggest potential strengths of FCEVs is that they can virtually eliminate these harmful tailpipe emissions. Rather than releasing carbon dioxide emissions, there are already FCEVs on the road today that emit nothing more than warm air and water. If used on a global scale, such FCEVs could have a massive impact, cutting down on everything from smog to climate change.

The Economic Benefits of FCEVs


Aside from the harmful environmental effects of gasoline reliance, one of the other major drawbacks of fossil fuel has always been that it’s [url=https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/distribution-fossil-fuels/#:~:text=Other resources%2C like fossil fuels,distributed evenly around the Earth.]nonrenewable[/url]. In other words, there’s only so much of it we can tap into before we use it all up completely. Then, of course, there’s the inconvenient reality that you can’t find fossil fuels just anywhere. 

Although the United States has one of the biggest oil and natural gas reserves in the world, the U.S. still regularly uses [url=https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/distribution-fossil-fuels/#:~:text=Oil and natural,Arabia%2C and Mexico.]more oil[/url] than it produces. This has historically led to dependence on foreign oil, which has tricky political and economic implications.  
So how does hydrogen stack up? It just so happens to be the most abundant element on Earth and can be produced domestically. According to the [url=https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/hydrogen_benefits.html#:~:text=When used to power highly efficient fuel cell electric vehicles%2C hydrogen holds the promise of helping strengthen national energy security%2C conserve fuel%2C and diversify our transportation energy options for a more resilient system.]Department of Energy[/url], “When used to power highly efficient fuel cell electric vehicles, hydrogen holds the promise of helping strengthen national energy security, conserve fuel, and diversify our transportation energy options for a more resilient system.”
Ipak izglasana zabrana benzinaca i dizelaša - Page 22 E8d76f82da227c57ff0e86c04e8bb452Refueling the hydrogen to the Toyota Mirai car on the hydrogen filling station. Photo Courtesy: Tramino/iStock

Availability and Range of Hydrogen-Powered Cars


While it’s already possible to purchase a hydrogen-powered car, it may not be the best idea unless you live in one of the few states in the U.S. that currently have hydrogen fueling stations. Most of these initial stations are located in California — a fact that has presented a roadblock in generating interest in FCEVs on a national scale. After all, what’s the point of buying a new vehicle if you don’t have access to the fuel you need to power it?  
But that hasn’t stopped several major auto manufacturers from developing their own FCEVs, hoping that they’ll become more widespread in the future. BMW, Toyota and Hyundai are just a few auto companies worldwide that have already ventured into the hydrogen-powered car space. 
As far as fuel economy, some FCEVs already enjoy the equivalent of up to 70 miles per gallon on a single tank and offer an impressive mileage range. According to some auto manufacturers, the future is looking even brighter, as there are hydrogen cars in development designed to get up to 500 miles on a single tank. 
Ipak izglasana zabrana benzinaca i dizelaša - Page 22 C8f06c37aae589a296a44290e2f563d9Photo Courtesy: Tramino/iStock

The Challenges of Hydrogen-Powered Vehicles


At this point, you may be wondering, if trading in fossil fuels for hydrogen is such a great idea, why haven’t we done it yet? Unfortunately, the leap to hydrogen fuel isn’t going to be an overnight solution. There are still several key challenges that science is attempting to overcome, one of which revolves around producing hydrogen fuel on a mass scale. 
One drawback of hydrogen is that, despite its abundance, it doesn’t occur naturally except as part of a compound. That means that it’s always attached to some other element in its natural state. Water, for instance, is a combination of hydrogen and oxygen (H2O). To use the hydrogen in a barrel of water for fuel, we’d first have to separate it from all the oxygen in the barrel. 
Ironically, some of the most obvious ways to generate the electricity needed to separate the hydrogen currently involve using coal or natural gas. In other words, creating clean hydrogen fuel can end up producing just as much pollution as it’s designed to eliminate. 
That said, scientists are hopeful that we’ll someday cut fossil fuels out of the transportation equation entirely. The hope is that hydrogen production will ultimately rely on electricity generated by wind, solar, biomass and hydro-power.

Zašto sam stavio ovaj članak?
Vidi se kad je datiran, par godina ranije od onog link na koji je stavio najveći stručnjak za trulo pomodarstvo na ovom forumu, Marcel Holjevac.
Dakle, jednostavno je autentičniji.
Uostalom koga boli kurac za što se zalaže firma poput Mercedesa koja uostalom i nije najveći odnosno vodeća kompanija za proizvodnju automobila. 
To je zapravo Toyota, koja, gle čuda, predstavlja i najvećeg zagovornika upotrebe vodika u svojoj fuel cell tehnologiji električnog pogona.
I koja nikako ne odustaje od tog pogona, ne obazirući se na crna proročanstva frustriranih mediokriteta o njegovoj budućnosti.


Last edited by Speare Shaker on 20/2/2023, 18:32; edited 1 time in total
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Ipak izglasana zabrana benzinaca i dizelaša - Page 22 Empty Re: Ipak izglasana zabrana benzinaca i dizelaša

Post by Guest 20/2/2023, 18:30

Speare Shaker wrote:
Speare Shaker wrote:
marcellus wrote:

Inače Merc je isto eksperimentirao s pogonom na H2 ali su brzo odustali kad su skužili koji su problemi

https://electrek.co/2020/04/22/daimler-ends-hydrogen-car-development-because-its-too-costly/

[size=36]Are Hydrogen-Powered Vehicles the Future of Clean Energy?[/size]
By Helen LinLast Updated October 19, 2022

Facebook

[url=https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?text=Are Hydrogen-Powered Vehicles the Future of Clean][/url]
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Ipak izglasana zabrana benzinaca i dizelaša - Page 22 3d1eca2252e9455d215974f54a18c8d0Photo Courtesy: onurdongel/iStock
While automobiles are undoubtedly one of the greatest inventions in modern history, their reliance on gasoline has become a global issue. The mass burning of fossil fuels worldwide has struck a blow to our environment, leaving science scrambling for alternative power sources. 

While hybrids and electric cars are a great step in the right direction, science may have an even better solution in the form of hydrogen-powered fuel cells. Join us for a look at hydrogen-powered vehicles, what they are and how they work. 

What Are Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles (FCEVs)? 


While today’s hybrid and electric vehicles are better than traditional gas-guzzling vehicles, they still have drawbacks. For one, they rely on electric batteries, which require periodic charging. Fuel cell electric vehicles or FCEVs may offer a quicker, cleaner path to the future. 
While FCEVs are also powered by electricity, it’s produced by an onboard hydrogen fuel cell rather than a rechargeable battery. Whereas many of today’s electric cars have to be plugged in, the typical FCEV can be refueled in just a few minutes, like a traditional gas-powered car. 
The difference is that, instead of fossil fuels, an FCEV’s tank is filled with pure hydrogen gas. Through the magic of [url=https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/fuel-cells#:~:text=A fuel cell consists,heat. Learn more about%3A]chemistry[/url], the fuel cell can convert the hydrogen to electricity, which in turn powers the vehicle. 

Why Are FCEVs Cleaner Than Gas-Powered Vehicles?


According to the U.S. Department of Energy, [url=https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/hydrogen_benefits.html#:~:text=About half of,and warm air.]about half[/url] the people in the United States currently live in an environment where the air pollution level is high enough to produce negative health effects. Not only does this have huge implications for public health, but also the environment. 
Ipak izglasana zabrana benzinaca i dizelaša - Page 22 9599c92e9fa2d6d5e714fd8db295c299Engine in a Toyota Mirai, the first mass-produced fuell cell car in the world. Photo Courtesy: Tramino/iStock
Unfortunately, these statistics are not surprising considering the amount of fossil fuel emissions constantly being released into the air by gas-powered vehicles. Regardless, many people have long felt they had no choice but to continue using gasoline as the trade-off for reliable transportation. 
One of the biggest potential strengths of FCEVs is that they can virtually eliminate these harmful tailpipe emissions. Rather than releasing carbon dioxide emissions, there are already FCEVs on the road today that emit nothing more than warm air and water. If used on a global scale, such FCEVs could have a massive impact, cutting down on everything from smog to climate change.

The Economic Benefits of FCEVs


Aside from the harmful environmental effects of gasoline reliance, one of the other major drawbacks of fossil fuel has always been that it’s [url=https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/distribution-fossil-fuels/#:~:text=Other resources%2C like fossil fuels,distributed evenly around the Earth.]nonrenewable[/url]. In other words, there’s only so much of it we can tap into before we use it all up completely. Then, of course, there’s the inconvenient reality that you can’t find fossil fuels just anywhere. 

Although the United States has one of the biggest oil and natural gas reserves in the world, the U.S. still regularly uses [url=https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/distribution-fossil-fuels/#:~:text=Oil and natural,Arabia%2C and Mexico.]more oil[/url] than it produces. This has historically led to dependence on foreign oil, which has tricky political and economic implications.  
So how does hydrogen stack up? It just so happens to be the most abundant element on Earth and can be produced domestically. According to the [url=https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/hydrogen_benefits.html#:~:text=When used to power highly efficient fuel cell electric vehicles%2C hydrogen holds the promise of helping strengthen national energy security%2C conserve fuel%2C and diversify our transportation energy options for a more resilient system.]Department of Energy[/url], “When used to power highly efficient fuel cell electric vehicles, hydrogen holds the promise of helping strengthen national energy security, conserve fuel, and diversify our transportation energy options for a more resilient system.”
Ipak izglasana zabrana benzinaca i dizelaša - Page 22 E8d76f82da227c57ff0e86c04e8bb452Refueling the hydrogen to the Toyota Mirai car on the hydrogen filling station. Photo Courtesy: Tramino/iStock

Availability and Range of Hydrogen-Powered Cars


While it’s already possible to purchase a hydrogen-powered car, it may not be the best idea unless you live in one of the few states in the U.S. that currently have hydrogen fueling stations. Most of these initial stations are located in California — a fact that has presented a roadblock in generating interest in FCEVs on a national scale. After all, what’s the point of buying a new vehicle if you don’t have access to the fuel you need to power it?  
But that hasn’t stopped several major auto manufacturers from developing their own FCEVs, hoping that they’ll become more widespread in the future. BMW, Toyota and Hyundai are just a few auto companies worldwide that have already ventured into the hydrogen-powered car space. 
As far as fuel economy, some FCEVs already enjoy the equivalent of up to 70 miles per gallon on a single tank and offer an impressive mileage range. According to some auto manufacturers, the future is looking even brighter, as there are hydrogen cars in development designed to get up to 500 miles on a single tank. 
Ipak izglasana zabrana benzinaca i dizelaša - Page 22 C8f06c37aae589a296a44290e2f563d9Photo Courtesy: Tramino/iStock

The Challenges of Hydrogen-Powered Vehicles


At this point, you may be wondering, if trading in fossil fuels for hydrogen is such a great idea, why haven’t we done it yet? Unfortunately, the leap to hydrogen fuel isn’t going to be an overnight solution. There are still several key challenges that science is attempting to overcome, one of which revolves around producing hydrogen fuel on a mass scale. 
One drawback of hydrogen is that, despite its abundance, it doesn’t occur naturally except as part of a compound. That means that it’s always attached to some other element in its natural state. Water, for instance, is a combination of hydrogen and oxygen (H2O). To use the hydrogen in a barrel of water for fuel, we’d first have to separate it from all the oxygen in the barrel. 
Ironically, some of the most obvious ways to generate the electricity needed to separate the hydrogen currently involve using coal or natural gas. In other words, creating clean hydrogen fuel can end up producing just as much pollution as it’s designed to eliminate. 
That said, scientists are hopeful that we’ll someday cut fossil fuels out of the transportation equation entirely. The hope is that hydrogen production will ultimately rely on electricity generated by wind, solar, biomass and hydro-power.

Zašto sam stavio ovaj članak?
Vidi se kad je datiran, par godina ranije od onog link na koji je stavio najveći stručnjak za trulo pomodarstvo na ovom forumu, Marcel Holjevac.
Dakle, jednostavno je autentičniji.
Uostalom koga boli kurac za što se zalaže firma poput Mercedesa koja uostalom i nije najveći odnosno vodeća kompanija za proizvodnju automobila. 
To je zapravo Toyota, koja, gle čuda, predstavlja i najvećeg zagovornika upotrebe vodika u svojoj fuel cell tehnologiji električnog pogona.
I koja nikako ne odustaje od tog pogona, ne obazirući se na crna proročanstva frustriranih mediokriteta o njegovoj budućnosti.

Mercedes se neće pitati za ništa.
Pitat će se Toyotu.
A vi koji blebećete o prednostima baterija nad vodikom, moći ćete samo drkati u pokušaju da proizvedete litij kada dođe do njegove žestoke nestašice na svjetskom tržištu zbog enormnog povećanja broja čistih baterijskih strujića.
Protiv kojih ja nemam ništa, ali je jasno da ne predstavljaju univerzalan odgovor na pitanje o budućnosti automobilske industrije, nebitno što su u određenom segmentu i režimu upotrebe u velikoj prednosti pred ostalim tehnologija pa i fuel cellom.


Last edited by Speare Shaker on 20/2/2023, 18:38; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Guest 20/2/2023, 18:38

Posebno se neću obazirati na idiotične upise u kojem se nekima ovdje pripusje zaviost spram nekih drugih zato jer kao ne koristimo svakodnevno baterijske e aute.
Pa ja doduše jesam vozio e Golfa, ali takvo vozilo definitivno neću nabavljati još barem 10 godina, a pitanje je hoću li ikad.
No, to ne znači da nisam upoznat sa manama i vrlinama tih tehnologija čak i iz prve ruke, nebitno što ih ne koristim svakodnevno.
To je samo jedna metiljava kretenarija koja nekima hoće poručiti kako eto kao neki imaju veći kurac od nekih drugih, i predstavlja samo infantilnu fantaziju sljedbenika pop trash kulture, da sad ne koristim izraz trulo pomodarstvo i ne spominjem svetu Gretu.
Ukratko, jad, bijeda i mizerija oa narativa i njegovih nositelja ne samo na ovom forumu za posebno mentalno retardirane.
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Post by marcellus 20/2/2023, 19:18

Speare Shaker wrote:
marcellus wrote:

Inače Merc je isto eksperimentirao s pogonom na H2 ali su brzo odustali kad su skužili koji su problemi

https://electrek.co/2020/04/22/daimler-ends-hydrogen-car-development-because-its-too-costly/

Why Are FCEVs Cleaner Than Gas-Powered Vehicles?


kbk, nisu čišći od BEV vozila, a osjetno su skuplji.

gas powered vehicles više jednostavno nisu tema, uspoređivati se mogu jedino električna vozila i ona na vodik.

a nebitno je što helen kaže, bitno je što kažu mercedes, vw, toyota i mazda.

Oni svi već 30 godina eksperimentiraju s vodikom, kao pogonom, i sad su odustali od toga.

lijepo ti je gene rekao, vhs, betamax.

beta je imala bolju sliku, ali su svi filmovi bili na vhs-u. I bila je puno skuplja.

vodik se brže puni, ali su sve javne punionice struja, ne vodik.

i puno je skuplji od struje, i vodik i auti na njega.


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Post by crvenkasti 20/2/2023, 19:23

Speare Shaker wrote:
Speare Shaker wrote:
škutor wrote:
crvenkasti wrote:

Energije ima koliko hoćeš, i može biti besplatna za sve.

samo to je problem

Nije, zato jer ne postoji tako nešto kao što je besplatna enerija.

Naime, svojevremeno se puno govorilo o tzv. vakuumskoj energiji, pozadinskoj energiji cijelog svemira, kao o besplatnom izvoru.
i ona nam jeste na slobodnom raspolaganju, nitko nam ne bi mogao ograničiti eksploataciji te energije, samo je problem u tome što bi njena eksploatacija zahtjevala određenu tehnologiju doumljavanje koje, zatim izgradnja, zatim održavanje itd. košta kao svetog Petra kajgana.
Da ne spominjem distributivni sustav koji bi košta još i više.
Dakle, tvoje i masturbiranje crvljivkastog na narativ o podmuklom kapitalizmu koji stalno gleda kako će vas obične male ljude nekako iskoristiti i kako bi bilo najbolje da ga se ukine i zamijeni nekom vrstom socijalizma s ljudskim likom je u najmanju ruku gadljivo.
Posebno tvoje jer neprestano blebećeš o zlu socijalizma, a ovdje kroz jednu od temeljnih mantri tog društvenog sustava koja prividno zagovara brigu o običnom malom čovjeku neprestano izrabljivanog od zlog kapitalizma zapravo zagovaraš ono protiv čega se formalno izjašnjavaš.

Ti moraš prvo shvatiti tri zakona termodinamike i sve što iz njih proizlazi.

Kad ti tu bude sve jasno, onda tek možeš raspravljati o besplatnoj energiji.

Ovako te nitko ne shvaća ozbiljno.
Brzo wikipediju u ruke!
Sutra očekujem da mi napišeš o tome nešto lijepo i pametno.


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Post by marcellus 20/2/2023, 19:25

Speare Shaker wrote:
Mercedes se neće pitati za ništa.
Pitat će se Toyotu.

koja svoj mirai prodaje već 10 godina bez ikakvih rezultata, i gubi 50-75.000 dolara po svakom prodanom?

I koji prolazi "nevjerojatnih" 400 milja s jednim punjenjem?

Nazdravlje, danas svaki bolji električar prolazi toliko. Za puno manje love.

samo električara imaš di natankat kad se isprazni, moš i doma.

Toyota je zadnji od desetak proizvođača koji su ulagali u vodik i kladili se na njega, koji još nije odustao.

Ali u konačnici, i oni će morati prijeći na struju. Osim ako ne misle izgradit vlastitu mrežu punionica na svakom ćošku. A tu lovu čak ni oni nemaju. A i nema smisla raditi paralelnu infrastrukturu, ne mogu postojati dva standarda.

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Post by marcellus 20/2/2023, 19:27

1000 auta godišnje... genijalno.

https://carfigures.com/us-market-brand/toyota/mirai#:~:text=Toyota%20sold%20222%20Mirai%20in%20January%202023.

i prodaja stoji godinama na istoj razini.

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