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Pariz: Odsekao glavu uz Alah Akber

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Post by Hektorović on Sat 17 Oct - 20:42

@epikur37 wrote:
@Hektorović wrote:
@AssadNaPodmornici wrote:jer ekipa koja zagovara policijsku državu je ljevica a isti zagovaraju i provode trpačinu... ili si totalni slobodnjak, ili si ljevičar/liberal.

Nema toga, baš je Vermeule nedavno pisao kako treba libertarijance kirurški odstraniti od desnice :)

sama ta sintagma totalni slobodnjak je balava, neozbiljna i neodgovorna...

da totalni slobodnjak

:D

Mudra glava mora voditi stado ka općem dobru :) Ovo je upravo cutting-edge desna misao na zapadu :) Yoda nam je ostao u ranim 2000tim...
 


https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/common-good-constitutionalism/609037/


law is parental, a wise teacher and an inculcator of good habits. Just authority in rulers can be exercised for the good of subjects, if necessary even against the subjects’ own perceptions of what is best for them—perceptions that may change over time anyway, as the law teaches, habituates, and re-forms them. Subjects will come to thank the ruler whose legal strictures, possibly experienced at first as coercive, encourage subjects to form more authentic desires for the individual and common goods, better habits, and beliefs that better track and promote communal well-being.
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Post by epikur37 on Sat 17 Oct - 20:46

@Hektorović wrote:
@epikur37 wrote:
@Hektorović wrote:
@AssadNaPodmornici wrote:jer ekipa koja zagovara policijsku državu je ljevica a isti zagovaraju i provode trpačinu... ili si totalni slobodnjak, ili si ljevičar/liberal.

Nema toga, baš je Vermeule nedavno pisao kako treba libertarijance kirurški odstraniti od desnice :)

sama ta sintagma totalni slobodnjak je balava, neozbiljna i neodgovorna...

da totalni slobodnjak

:D

Mudra glava mora voditi stado ka općem dobru :) Ovo je upravo cutting-edge desna misao na zapadu :) Yoda nam je ostao u ranim 2000tim...
 


https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/common-good-constitutionalism/609037/


law is parental, a wise teacher and an inculcator of good habits. Just authority in rulers can be exercised for the good of subjects, if necessary even against the subjects’ own perceptions of what is best for them—perceptions that may change over time anyway, as the law teaches, habituates, and re-forms them. Subjects will come to thank the ruler whose legal strictures, possibly experienced at first as coercive, encourage subjects to form more authentic desires for the individual and common goods, better habits, and beliefs that better track and promote communal well-being.


ti i tamo se neki junac ritne izvan obora ali to je to
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Post by Hektorović on Sat 17 Oct - 20:48

@epikur37 wrote:


ti i tamo se neki junac ritne izvan obora ali to je to

Promoting a substantive vision of the good is, always and everywhere, the proper function of rulers. Every act of public-regarding government has been founded on such a vision; any contrary view is an illusion. Liberal and libertarian constitutional decisions that claim to rule out “morality” as a ground for public action are incoherent, even fraudulent, for they rest on merely a particular account of morality, an implausible account.
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Post by Hektorović on Sat 17 Oct - 20:49

Constitutional words such as freedom and liberty need not be given libertarian readings; instead they can be read in light of a better conception of liberty as the natural human capacity to act in accordance with reasoned morality.
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Post by epikur37 on Sat 17 Oct - 20:50

Yoda će nadoći, mlad je, ali već mu je vrijeme da ostavi te budalaštine tipa totalni slobodnjak i slično.

Inače bi mogao završiti kao aben, kao liberalna usidjelica.
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Post by Hektorović on Sat 17 Oct - 20:53

@epikur37 wrote:Yoda će nadoći, mlad je, ali već mu je vrijeme da ostavi te budalaštine tipa totalni slobodnjak i slično.

Mogao bi završiti kao aben, kao liberalna usidjelica.


Rast je prirodno stanje organizma u usponu, kraj rasta je i početak odumiranja.

Predugo se držiš jedne krute mantre, i vrijeme te pregazi.




Da ne govorimo kako je libertarijanizam samo ispljuvak liberalizma koji se pokušao prišlepati desnici.
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Post by Hektorović on Sat 17 Oct - 20:55


libertarian assumptions central to free-speech law and free-speech ideology—that government is forbidden to judge the quality and moral worth of public speech, that “one man’s vulgarity is another’s lyric,”  and so on—fall under the ax. Libertarian conceptions of property rights and economic rights will also have to go, insofar as they bar the state from enforcing duties of community and solidarity in the use and distribution of resources.
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Post by Hektorović on Sat 17 Oct - 20:57

@Hektorović wrote:
libertarian assumptions central to free-speech law and free-speech ideology—that government is forbidden to judge the quality and moral worth of public speech, that “one man’s vulgarity is another’s lyric,”  and so on—fall under the ax. Libertarian conceptions of property rights and economic rights will also have to go, insofar as they bar the state from enforcing duties of community and solidarity in the use and distribution of resources.

Ovo je upravo jako aktuelna tema o kojoj pišemo zadnjih dana, i s kojom ćemo se morati baviti i u nas.


Naravno ovo što Vermeule piše je racionalno-tradicionalistički, konzervativno katolički topnički udar na libertarijance.
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Post by epikur37 on Sat 17 Oct - 21:03

@Hektorović wrote:
libertarian assumptions central to free-speech law and free-speech ideology—that government is forbidden to judge the quality and moral worth of public speech, that “one man’s vulgarity is another’s lyric,”  and so on—fall under the ax. Libertarian conceptions of property rights and economic rights will also have to go, insofar as they bar the state from enforcing duties of community and solidarity in the use and distribution of resources.

klatno se vraća, nakon što je dosgnulo svoj liberalni maximum

Ja ovo najavljujem već 10ak godina, 


ideološki maximum je dosegnut još 90-ih i ranih 2000-ih, mi to nismo upratili jer smo bili u svojim lokalnim ratovima i poraćima

obrnuti proces je krenuo pa ima 10-ak godina već
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Post by epikur37 on Sat 17 Oct - 21:06

Danas biti libertarijanac je kao biti hipik u 80-im il početkom 90-ih...
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Post by MaximusDecimusMiridije on Sat 17 Oct - 21:10

Ja nisam nikada mogao skontati potrebu ljudi da se guraju u te nekakve ne znam ni ja, ajmo reć definirane grupe-skupine. U razgovoru ih generalno nehotice iznerviraš pogotovo ako sami inzistiraju na razgovorima te vrste, jer redovito ispadne da unatoč tome što se guraju u neku takvu skupinu...od iste prihvaćaju dijelove koji im odgovaraju a one koji ne odgovaraju odbacuju. Kod nas je to zeru drukčije ali u načelu isto. Ono najveći pogotovo koji za sebe kažu da su lijevi ili desni da su ovo ili ono...redovito ispadne da uživaju u nečemu što generalni pristup skupine u koju se ufaju osuđuje  :D
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Post by Hektorović on Sat 17 Oct - 21:15

@epikur37 wrote:

klatno se vraća, nakon što je dosgnulo svoj liberalni maximum

Ja ovo najavljujem već 10ak godina, 


ideološki maximum je dosegnut još 90-ih i ranih 2000-ih, mi to nismo upratili jer smo bili u svojim lokalnim ratovima i poraćima

obrnuti proces je krenuo pa ima 10-ak godina već

Znaš koliko je sati kad ovo piše piše chaired profesor sa Harvarda, nova intelektualna zvijezda američke akademske desnice. Dosta je mantri o slabljenju države, rezanju birokracije, "nevidljivoj ruci", totalnoj slobodi tržišta da radi sve što želi, totalnoj neograničenoj slobodi pojedinaca da rade što im padne na pamet.


a powerful presidency ruling over a powerful bureaucracy, the latter acting through principles of administrative law’s inner morality with a view to promoting solidarity and subsidiarity. The bureaucracy will be seen not as an enemy, but as the strong hand of legitimate rule. The state is to be entrusted with the authority to protect the populace from the vagaries and injustices of market forces, from employers who would exploit them as atomized individuals, and from corporate exploitation and destruction of the natural environment. Unions, guilds and crafts, cities and localities, and other solidaristic associations will benefit from the presumptive favor of the law, as will the traditional family; in virtue of subsidiarity, the aim of rule will be not to displace these associations, but to help them function well. 
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Post by Hektorović on Sat 17 Oct - 21:17

@epikur37 wrote:Danas biti libertarijanac je kao biti hipik u 80-im il početkom 90-ih..

Hipi česi iz 90tih :)

Istočnoeuropski zakašnjeli trendovi...
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Post by epikur37 on Sat 17 Oct - 21:18

Da ali naša istočnoeuropska zaostala avangarda, da kažem, još uvijek se fura liberalni endizam početka 90-ih, nevidljivu ruku i amričku globalnu hegemoniju...

provincija

njah
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Post by aben on Sat 17 Oct - 21:19

@MaximusDecimusMiridije wrote:Ja nisam nikada mogao skontati potrebu ljudi da se guraju u te nekakve ne znam ni ja, ajmo reć definirane grupe-skupine. U razgovoru ih generalno nehotice iznerviraš pogotovo ako sami inzistiraju na razgovorima te vrste, jer redovito ispadne da unatoč tome što se guraju u neku takvu skupinu...od iste prihvaćaju dijelove koji im odgovaraju a one koji ne odgovaraju odbacuju. Kod nas je to zeru drukčije ali u načelu isto. Ono najveći pogotovo koji za sebe kažu da su lijevi ili desni da su ovo ili ono...redovito ispadne da uživaju u nečemu što generalni pristup skupine u koju se ufaju osuđuje  :D
a, ti bi da, nakon identifikacije po nekoj grupi, čovik neselektivno prihvati sve iz ote grupe?

ne gre to tako. identifikacija je uvika okvirna, služi ko sir i pršut, ko conversation starter

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Post by Hektorović on Sat 17 Oct - 21:20

Elaborating on the common-good principle that no constitutional right to refuse vaccination exists, constitutional law will define in broad terms the authority of the state to protect the public’s health and well-being, protecting the weak from pandemics and scourges of many kinds—biological, social, and economic—even when doing so requires overriding the selfish claims of individuals to private “rights.” Thus the state will enjoy authority to curb the social and economic pretensions of the urban-gentry liberals who so often place their own satisfactions (financial and sexual) and the good of their class or social milieu above the common good.
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Post by aben on Sat 17 Oct - 21:21

@Hektorović wrote:[size=50]
libertarian assumptions central to free-speech law and free-speech ideology—that government is forbidden to judge the quality and moral worth of public speech, that “one man’s vulgarity is another’s lyric,”  and so on—fall under the ax. Libertarian conceptions of property rights and economic rights will also have to go, insofar as they bar the state from enforcing duties of community and solidarity in the use and distribution of resources.
[/size]

kako un to misli,  will have to go?

ki to govori, isus?

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Post by Hektorović on Sat 17 Oct - 21:22

@epikur37 wrote:Da ali naša istočnoeuropska zaostala avangarda, da kažem, još uvijek se fura liberalni endizam početka 90-ih, nevidljivu ruku i amričku globalnu hegemoniju...

provincija

njah

To ko oni stariji na Reagana... :)


No na nama je da unesemo malo svježeg zraka i u našu žabokrečinu.
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Post by aben on Sat 17 Oct - 21:24

@epikur37 wrote:Da ali naša istočnoeuropska zaostala avangarda, da kažem, još uvijek se fura liberalni endizam početka 90-ih, nevidljivu ruku i amričku globalnu hegemoniju...

provincija

njah
ali, epikure, ne moreš se oslanjati na diplomatik i dovati ovakove preglede, jednostavno je smišno to ča govoriš. 

moro bi puno više odzumirati u povijest, ko bi se hoti okušati u ovakovin ocjenami.

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Post by epikur37 on Sat 17 Oct - 21:28

@aben wrote:
@epikur37 wrote:Da ali naša istočnoeuropska zaostala avangarda, da kažem, još uvijek se fura liberalni endizam početka 90-ih, nevidljivu ruku i amričku globalnu hegemoniju...

provincija

njah
ali, epikure, ne moreš se oslanjati na diplomatik i dovati ovakove preglede, jednostavno je smišno to ča govoriš. 

moro bi puno više odzumirati u povijest, ko bi se hoti okušati u ovakovin ocjenami.


bilo bi lijepk da kažeš nešto i konkretno

sama tvoj dijalekt je zabavan ali nije podloga raspravi
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